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December 1-10, 2004

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(Quotes from Ed in Red)


Fri, 10 Dec 2004


November, 2004 Workshop Feedback

Hi Ed,

The workshop has been a unique experience for me.

I have never before been part of a group this large (24 people, none of whom I had met before), and felt comfortable enough with them within just a few hours to bring up almost any issue, however personal.

I experienced a feeling of trust and confidence that I have the support of the group to help resolve my issues - whatever they may be. I recall having many issues to bring up when I took the Hot Seat on Saturday night, and wish there was time to bring up more of them than just the one I had time for.

Over the last year - mainly through reading the FAQ on Ed’s site, and now after participating in the workshop - I have developed immense confidence in the power of TTP as a means to help me realize what I believe I am capable of. I was eager to experience the Process in Ed’s presence, and under his guidance. I am glad that happened, though I wish there had been more of it!

I have recently begun to experience a significant improvement in the quality of some of the most important relationships in my life.


And I think that has a lot to do with my involvement with Ed’s work, and my participation in the workshop.


Fri, 10 Dec 2004


Risk Management

Mr. Seykota,

I am reading Your page about risk management http://www.seykota.com/

tribe/risk/index.htm  and I have one unclearness.

You wrote that if I have $1,000 and I bet [just $10 of it at 2:1 - and if I win I then wind up with a total of] $1020.


But I think You not right. If I have $1000 and if I bet $10, I do not get $1020 but only $1010.


Because start is 1000 bet 10 I have 990 if I win I get 20 and my pocket is 1010.

What is wrong?

Thank You for Your answer.

In the example, you are a visitor to a casino.


As such, you have to put down $10, before the play, to demonstrate your ability to pay if you lose. 


The $10 is not a commission, so you get it back if you win.


In case you lose, the house simply picks up your bet to satisfy the claim. 


In case you win, you collect $20 from the house, and you may also reclaim your bet - or let it ride for another round.



Flipping the Coin

determines the outcome


The $10 bet on the table

demonstrates you can satisfy a claim.


Clip: http://www.codefun.com/Images/


Thu, 9 Dec 2004


Give it All I Can !

Dear Ed,

I had another amazing hot seat session last night. I took my feeling of dejection into the process. I noticed this feeling when my automated trading strategy suffered the fourth day of losses, and then I got whipped on my discretionary trading, and finally either forgetting or just deviating from my mechanical strategy and now my actual result is far behind the theoretical result. As I see all these, I feel worthless. I realize my sense of self-worth is actually tied to whether it is a positive or negative P&L.

I thought I had already come to terms with "losing is part of the game." I thought I knew very well that it was utterly impossible to have good day everyday. But anyhow, knowing is one thing, what I'm actually feeling is another. "Forgetting" to run my mechanical strategy and then miss the subsequent profit is just a drama Fred set up for me. Frankly I'm hesitant and I don't even think I truly believe in the strategy. Intention = Results; intention = results, I think it shows again.

OK, I took the hot seat last night, and my intention was to revisit my dejected feeling when I saw my negative P&L, and find its positive intention. After all, I've been creating drama in my trading to experience it, I believe there is a message there for me, and I may as well find it out from the hot seat instead of from the market.

I have similar feelings as previous sessions. I have a warm buzz in my head; I breathe faster and deeper to the point of choking. The only thing new this time is I find myself rubbing my forearm on my leg to the point where it burns and hurts. However, I feel determined to get right at where it hurts, and with the encouragement of the receivers, I rub it even more.

Then I turn to pounding my chest. That's what I did in my last hot seat too. But this time I go much further. I keep pounding my left chest with my right fist, then when I get tired I pound my right chest with my left. I am counting and I say to myself, "I'll do it till I get 100." By the time I get to 80, my arm gets tired. But then with the receivers urging me to go deeper and further, I hang on enough to get to 100, and switch to another arm. Again, the goal is 100, and again, I get tired when I get to 80 or so, but I hang on enough to make it 100.

While the repeated chest-pounding may seem pointless, looking back, I can absolutely see how I crave for this feeling.


I've brought up to my tribe my problems with commitment, with sticking to things, and perseverance is something I highly value. I always have that image for a determined man, refusing to back down, and by sheer will he creates an unstoppable force that just knives through any opposition as if they're just some kind of soft tofu. And that is precisely the feeling I am getting at when I am on the hot seat.

As that feeling develops, instead of pounding the chest 100 times and switch, it turns itself to how many times I can pound my chest without switching. And in my mind it is as if the number of times I pound my chest will be the number of years my fiancée and I can live, or how much I can make, in thousands of dollars. This time when I get to 80, my goal is 200. And when I get to 200, I just keep going, and going, and going, and going ...

Many times I think of quitting, but my fellow tribe members just keep encouraging me. They tell me this is the feeling I've been wanting to feel for a long time (how true!!), and that it is my moment now. Every time I think of quitting, I notice I still have a little juice left, and I just keep going. I thought, "I can't just quit now when I still have some left."

Talk about a breakthrough! Where 100 used to be the limit I can get to (and can only achieve that level if I muster up all my energy to stick through the last 20), this time I am going 500, 1000, 1500, gosh I even lose count. That's a great lesson for me!!


I get to unbelievable levels beyond my wildest imagination, and the irony is, I always feel I can go a little bit more. When I thought I'm down to my last 100, I set that as a target and gather up the strength to get through it. Then once I get through that, I feel that I can get another 100. And I just keep going.

I am not cheating at all. I am taking all the pounding on my chest. I feel that I am actually standing up to that pounding (instead of backing down). My receivers asked me to experience the feelings fully. I can feel that I am sweating and tired, but the real feeling is a determination soul, and it feels so good.

My legs start to move. Even though I'm still sitting on the hot seat, they just keep moving, along with the pounding. I don't know how many pounding I've taken, but when it is all over, I take a moment to get back to the consciousness, and go over with my receivers about the experience. It is then that the Aha moment comes. As I am speaking, I have that picture again, that same feeling last time I had on the hot seat (FAQ, Nov 22). It is the feeling that one has after a marathon, victorious with arms raised up high.


Although absolutely exhausted, looking back the path he has just gone through, he can't help stop the tears of joy rolling down (and I can't help it rolling as I was sharing it with my receivers, and even as I'm writing this down now), because he knows very well that he has left everything he has out there, and it's all worthwhile. He can leave with no regret.

And I think that's really the snapshot image of my dream. That's my deepest held value. That's what I REALLY want!! I want the feeling of giving my very best effort. Give it all I can.

This experience also strengthens my desire to go back to my birth with Dr. Grof's work. You mention about how Caesarian babies having lower proclivity to [completing] things. It seems to me that deep inside me I am craving for some kind of struggle, and then do everything I can to finally come out on top.

I slept so well that when the alarm rang this morning, I couldn't even remember I turned it off as I just fell right back to sleep. I remember in the middle of the night I felt some warm buzz over my body, and I just enjoyed that feeling. I don't know what it is.

This is a very adventurous journey to find my true self. I thought I am "normal", never have a history of hitting or harming myself, and certainly not a big fan of self-inflicted pain.


But somehow, I think there is some kind of message in it. Ha ha, the only thing is I don't know how to explain it to my fiancée. When she saw my chests all red and swollen and my right forearm obviously red and burned, she was very worried. Hmmm, I don't even know where to begin ...

Thank you Ed, as always!!

Family is the essential Tribe. 


One way to begin explaining the process to your fiancée is to share your feelings with her.


If this is uncomfortable for you, you might consider taking your feelings of discomfort to your Tribe.




The best time to master the art

of sharing your feelings with your fiancée


is while she is still your fiancée.


Clip: http://www.fbckenner.org/






Thu, 9 Dec 2004

Intentions = Results

Hi Ed,

[Name] and I are doing great  here in [City]. With the support of TTP, our fund management business seems to be breaking out to new highs.

I thank you for receiving others, encouraging others to receive themselves,
and offering and engendering support.

Here are a few pix from our new office - which serves the [City] Tribe as the
new meeting place for the first time this week. You might notice the meditation cushion - which tribe members seem to like to use as the hot seat.



Office Hot Seat

An office relies on good equipment.  I am glad yours includes a hot seat.




The Hot Seat

as standard office furniture


provides a safe place

for you to encourage each other

to develop your forms.


Clip: http://theravensnest.com/


Thu, 09 Dec 2004


Interview Request

Dear Mr. Seykota,

please allow me to introduce myself ... I`m the publisher of [Publication] in [Germany].

I would like to talk with you ... about an interview for a German magazine and some other things.

Can you please eMail me your phone number?

Thank you very much in advance.

With best wishes,

Sie können mir Ihre Fragen hier, an HGF (Häufig Gestellte Fragen) schicken.


(You may send your questions to me here, at FAQ.)



Wed, 8 Dec 2004


Research Project

I provided you with my thoughts for my research project. Have you had a chance to read it, and do you have feedback for me?

The Incline Village Trading Tribe Research Team works as a Tribe.  I do not supervise individual projects.

Mon, 6 Dec 2004



HI Ed,

Hope you are doing well. I would be remiss if I delay this message any further. I have been meaning to send this earlier, but, was taken aback a bit when you said you would replying to the E-mails through postings in the FAQ. I do hope this stays confidential.

I would like to say a big "Thank You" for patiently sitting with me and talking through various things - including helping me on the hot-seat. I do mean it when I said you are my role-model notwithstanding anything else that you or others may perceive as drawbacks. I see you not just as a genius but as an honest and helping individual at heart.

Hopefully I will evolve in life to share similar values that you have - for I believe it is that value-system that made you a genius. This is based on my belief that genius is a matter of choice - of questioning everything and "attempting" to find answers. Meeting you had been an eye-opener and caused some profound shifts in the way I look at my life - this despite my "apparent" lack of feeling-the-feelings on hot-seat. I thank the destiny for having created an opportunity to meet you. And, I do hope to meet with you again and again to draw my sustenance in thinking. May you and your values live forever.


Among other things, can I attend Incline Village tribe meeting once a month? Just wanted to make sure that you are okay with my attending some meetings, but, not others. I also got E-mail from [Name] indicating that he will get me started on the research project.

Warm regards,

Your hesitation to let go on the hot seat, your hope for communication with me to remain confidential and your desire to attend Tribe meetings intermittently may all indicate you  might not like feelings of exposure. 


You might consider taking these judgments to your tribe. 


If your Tribe leader is unable to help you develop the associating forms, he might have similar issues.


Playing out in the open can have great rewards.





Tiger Woods

Plays Out in the Open


Here, he hits a few shag balls off the heli-deck of the Burj Al Arab hotel (world's tallest) in Dubai, UAE. Mr. Woods receives $1 million for appearing in Dubai for the Desert Classic, March 2, 2004.


Clip: http://news.bbc.co.uk/



Mon, 6 Dec 2004


The Real Problem

The real problem is not to control emotion, but to control the choices of which tendency shall receive emotional reinforcement ... fear, anger, courage.

If you already have what you want, you do not have a problem.


A problem is a difference between your desire and your perception of what you have - neither of which appears in your description.


You might like to take your feelings of trying to control feelings and choices to a Tribe meeting.



A TV Remote Control


can give people

who like to sit and watch

the illusion that they are in control.


Clip: http://www.pliniusaudio.com/


Sat, 4 Dec 2004


Hopping All Over It


Hi Ed.

You don't know me from Adam, but after reading up to the section on you in Covel's text, I thought I'd visit the site. Like most geeks, I sought out the radial momentum portion first. It's weird, but from a little kid from Arizona, I noticed very similar effects in swimming pools at the water outlets, but never connected it to the 'principle'. Given my financial savvy, I missed some other connections along the was as well.

In similar fashion and after reading your section in Covel, I had a flashback to around 1985 when a group of [Company] engineers I would lunch with took our daily walk to [Restaurant]. During that period of time, many of us were working on adaptive algorithms to control high precision motion, fluidic and chemical processes in the semiconductor industry. I distinctly recall many discussions about applying some of my work to the market.


I also recall having my peers laugh their [body parts] off at my ideas. One guy wanted to apply high speed image capturing hardware and our adaptive control system work to real-time prediction of video broadcast lottery events. That guy never got my concept either ... another guy looking for a quick payoff. For what it's worth, none of the work was 'predictive' in nature. The work focused on parametric adjustments for optimization of processes.

Anyway, one of those guys was [Name]. He went on to become a pHd of something, (probably Mech Eng.) and runs [Enterprise].  He, his wife ... and my wife at the time had a band for awhile .... Their music always sounded like Shar-days (sic) to me. If anyone would be open to some new ideas on the subject, he certainly would and he has the facility and staff to play your ideas out to completion. Also, he might have some insight into this section of science and be able to reflect on it with you.

As for trending, I just started looking into it a month ago and already want cash out, go to work for a luminary at a bargain price, and learn something new. If I could figure out how to move into such a position after 20 years in electrical engineering and no market experience, I'd hop all over it.

Thanks for your contribution.

You might like to take a Tribal look at what is standing between you and "hopping all over it." 



Hopping might be more fun


as a Tribe


Clip: http://www.netspaces.com/stack/




Sat, 4 Dec 2004


Happy Holidays

Dear Mr. Seykota,

Here is an executable program containing a six pointed star for you. My teacher for Computer Class at school wants me (along with the rest of the class) to create a star in Paint Shop Pro. My mother and I go to London tomorrow, therefore I do not have access to Paint Shop Pro. My father and I decide to create this star in Visual C++.net instead of in Paint Shop Pro. I am hoping the teacher will be blown away by the fact of a 14 year old student in the ninth grade programming in Visual C++. Do you like it? I certainly hope so.










Nice Job !

     Nice Job !

          Nice Job !

               Nice Job !

                    Nice Job!



Sun, 5 Dec 2004



Dear Mr. Seykota,

I would like to know more about starting a community in Marbella, Spain.

See the Tribe Directory for instructions.

Mon, 6 Dec 2004


Trading Tribe in Melbourne

Just a brief note to let you know that your [City] Trading Tribe will be giving birth on Monday 13th at 2pm.

Not sure if mother Tribe has been pregnant ... before, but we are guaranteed triplets for our first birth ... we are planning for a natural birth rather than a Caesar .

Three boys expected, however, lets hope they don't behave as such.

We plan to behave as a tribe and will get back to you with some feedback


If you hope your boys don't behave as boys, Fred may have some interesting adventures in store for you.





are a Natural Tribe


A Russian peasant in the eighteenth century has 27 pregnancies - 16 pairs of twins, 7 sets of triplets and four sets of quadruplets for a total if 69 kids.


Clip & Statistics: www.counton.org/ numberland/69/69.shtml

Sat, 4 Dec 2004


Lincoln Park Tribe

With your permission I am starting a TTP tribe in Lincoln Park, Michigan, USA.

Am tired of doing it myself. Looking for others interested in the TTP process.





Lincoln Park



You appear on the Directory Page.





opening your emotional container

can be easier with the right tool.




Antique Corkscrew

from Clemente's Bar

Lincoln Park, Mich.


Clip: http://www.bullworks.net/


Fri, 3 Dec 2004


Tribe Report

Hi Ed,

just want to report that my Tribe now has a new member. Now we stand as four committed tribesmen.


I am feeling peaceful and tired for meeting last night finished today around 12: 30 am. We are working hard to go through numerous judges and knots, we feel relived, peaceful and tired afterwards.


I mention that in two weeks I am in IV and people say "we don't want to miss the meeting and they ask for rescheduling."


We agree to do it on the day I come back. They leave and all becomes an AHA, I go to sleep and my brain keeps on going on.


I am excited about helping others, I can help and I am helping others. It feels good. Thank you again and have a great day.


Fri, 3 Dec 2004



Mr. Seykota,

Earlier this year, you advised that you were writing a book and that you expected to complete it this year. How is that project coming along, and when might this book become available for purchase?

I am currently working on the 4-th revision of the book.

Fri, 3 Dec 2004


FAQ Instruction Error

Instructions regarding your email address on the FAQ page will indeed avoid your spam filter... because the mail may never get sent. The exact form you recommend:

"FAQ" TT_95@yahoo.com

does not conform to the RFC#822 protocol which governs email addressing:


Here is a canonical form, used to send this email:

FAQ <TT_95@yahoo.com>

Nest the email address within the angle brackets when the address is accompanied by other text. Quotation marks are required if your accompanying text contains a comma or other punctuation marks.


A celebrity is one who is known to many persons he is glad he doesn't know. [H.L. Mencken]

Thank You for the catch.

Thu, 2 Dec 2004




My current issue, and it seems I always have some to work through, has to do with my professional goals. Last year I finished college and got a Bachelor's degree of Law. To my very own surprise I must admit, as I admittedly have always had a keen interest on technology and natural sciences.


Circumstances then, which now do not exist, lead me to choosing the other way around. Learning new things is always a pleasure to me and I do not regret about the learning experience though.

Now, however, I feel divided about the whole thing. I have come to a point where I have to commit to a career in order to be productive.


I have a lot of opportunities in the juridical area, yet they demand commitment. And it seems that time has come to know my true feelings about it. Yes, commitment. I don't feel like committing to anything ... And I hate having to decide about it.


I don't decide and much of what I do lacks purpose, with a few exceptions: I like my current job, I like my hometown where I live, I am beginning to learn programming, I am preparing my system for real trading and I wish a girlfriend. On the other hand I also like the prospect of financial stability and better salaries that a public juridical career can offer ... And so here I am again in the looping cycle ...

Trying to get out of the loop is just part of what propels you around the loop.


The positive intention of your loop is to get you to feel your feelings.


You might try taking your feelings about your loop and about commitment to your Tribe.




People Ride Loops


to get a feeling



Clip: http://www.negative-g.com/SFGAM/


Thu, 2 Dec 2004


Love Triangle Resolves

Ed Says: If one person in a relationship dissolves co-dependence, and the other does not, they tend to separate and find appropriate partners.

People in relationships that commit to growth tend to support each other through transitions - their relationships become containers for passing AHA's.

I wrote you a few days ago about getting again into a love triangle drama. This time, however, I made the firm decision to support my feelings and the girl's involved ( I had no contact with the other guy ), about the whole matter and about ourselves.

Today I read this answer to another FAQ contributor and it comes to my mind how the girl has just found a new job and is moving from my workplace. Fred (or whatever one might like to name it ) has interesting and mysterious ways.

The source for the drama is likely one of your independent forms  seeking validation. 


The girl moving away does not dis-solve the drama. 


She may soon re-appear in a different body and present opportunities to re-solve the drama, over and over until you dis-solve it by integrating your feelings.




Solving the Triangle

and Re-Solving it


does not make it disappear.


Losing desire to control it

makes it disappear.


Clip: http://www.greece.k12.ny.us/


Thu, 02 Dec 2004



Hi Ed


I apply for license as TTP practitioner.

At this point, Tribes operate without licenses, without certification by The Trading Tribe and at their own risk. 


A certification program for practitioners is in the works. 

Thu, 2 Dec 2004


Pieces are Falling into Place

I think I'm getting the hang of what you mean by saying to be careful for what you wish for. It's the power of the mind, the thoughts and visions one feeds upon that sets up given circumstances and gives the energy to ask for whatever it is you want or do whatever needs to be done in order to materialize those images (or not do things).

10 months ago I decided to stop lone-trading and start a fund manager career.

It was incredible to hear my boss say that he fully supports my idea of managing accounts for company clients and that he is going to help me. The director also supports me and other people do too.


After hours I work along with a programmer to get a system testing platform running so I could more or less present my methodology and the what-is-to-be-expected.

I wouldn't be saying this if I had not realized that this is exactly the way I imagined things would turn out. All I really had to do was wait, the rest was almost effortless.

This trend is on so I would like to take the opportunity and say that I want to participate in the Incline Village market research to become a better trader. I need some insights and support. I am willing to work on issues so it would be an honor to somehow be part of the team.

See the Directory page for requirements to participate in the Incline Village Trading Tribe, that now includes a Research Team.

Thu, 2 Dec 2004


The Disappearing Dollar



Clip: www.economist.com

Magazine covers sometimes celebrate societal AHA's - and indicate consummation of discount.


 One of the members of the Incline Village Trading Tribe Research Team is preparing a comprehensive study of this phenomenon.


In this case, the caterpillar cover provides a "contrary" indication - the US Dollar thereafter strengthens against the Canadian Dollar and some other currencies, at least for a couple weeks.



Canadian Dollar

Nov 12 - Dec 21, 2004


Economist Cover appears Dec 2

(See Arrow)

Wed 1 Dec 2004


Radial Momentum

I stumbled upon your website today while researching for a project I'm working on. Your experiments on lift are very interesting. I have a phenomenon that I am looking to understand and I was hoping you could  help. I've attached a diagram that describes the situation. Some > background on the project; the device is a nebulizer that takes liquid > drug and atomizes it into an aerosol. As you can see from the > drawing, we use similar geometry to your experimental setup.

I'm an engineering student working on a 4th year design project. The design is for a medical company.

I am working on my senior project. I am attending the University of Western Ontario in Canada. In the program here, design groups are paired with industry to work on a design problem. There are some confidential aspects to this project so I can't disclose too much information.


Here is the situation:

1. At rest, the actuator is held by a spring-like part at its rest position (shown in above diagram). The compressed air is not turned on at this point.

2. When the actuator travels downward (shown by blue arrow) it seals around the nozzle cover and allows the pressure drop created by the orifice to pull liquid through the liquid channels and nebulizer it.
3. However, before the actuator is pressed downward a phenomenon occurs. When the compressed air is turned on, the actuator is forced slightly down (also shown in diagram).

I am trying to find out what is causing the actuator to be forced down. This seems to be contradictory to your findings. You say that there is a –P created as the air moves radially and this causes lift. It seems as if I’m experiencing the opposite to this. I was looking at your levitation plates and thought that the parallel plates might help as it did not allow the air to move radially. What do you think?




I am not clear, from your drawing, which pieces move together, which channels carry fluids and what you know about pressures and flows at various points.


You might take your feelings about secrecy into your Tribe.




A Nebulizer


can help apply a drug

directly to the lungs.


In comparison with liquids or pills,

this method offers faster relief

with a lower dose.


Clip: http://www.shoplifestyle.com/store/