© Ed Seykota, 2003 - 2005 ... Write for permission to reprint.

Ed Seykota's

Frequently Asked Questions

FAQ Index & Ground Rules  ...  Tribe Directory - How to Join

TTP - The Trading Tribe Process  ...  Glossary

  TTP Workshop  ...  Resources


January 1 - 10, 2005

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(Quotes from Ed in Red)


Sun, 9 Jan 2005


Showing Off

Dear Ed,

I recall an instance in my childhood when I was showing off to my peers. Just because I have good grades in an exam, and I take the effort to bring it up with some peers whom I know have much poor grades than I am, so that I can gloat about it, just like those spoil and arrogant kids we see in movies. Perhaps in the process I may have hurt their feelings, but I never know.

Thinking about this now, I wonder what an adult (say I am the father) could do to 1) teach the child a lesson in modesty, 2) especially not in hurting other's feelings, yet 3) allow the child to fully experience the feelings of showing off, since he does deserve praises for getting good grades, and lastly, 4) perhaps even learn from the child in the process?

I very much appreciate your suggestions. Thanks.

You might take your feelings about "showing off" as an entry point  into TTP.


I am not clear about our goals:

1) what to teach a child about modesty.

2) how to not hurt another's feelings

3) how to allow someone to experience something and how to get them what they "deserve."


These goals all seem to come from  wanting to control another person.


The one that makes sense to me is:

4) learn from the child.




Government School

(Publik Skool)


a place where adults go

to get an education

from bright young teachers


all, conveniently, at taxpayer expense


Clip: http://www.house.gov/hensarling/


Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2005



Dear Ed,

As I'm reviewing old FAQs, this one back in 7/16/03 (Reference Information):

I am planning a certification process for investors and for traders. Likely for sometime in 2004.

Mastery Includes:

The Trading Tribe Process.
Basic trading skills.
Right livelihood.
Support network.
Contributing to others.

May I ask what is the status of this certification process, as I may be interested? Or do you have a new plan (since that was almost a year and a half ago when you wrote it)? Thanks.

The plan is still in process. 


Sun, 9 Jan 2005


Codependence & Boundaries


I have been doing some research about codependence & setting boundaries. In the course of it I have found this poem about listening, which just happens be much like "receiving":


So, what I ask to you is: Listen to me! :)


When I ask you to listen to me, and you start to give advice you have not done what I asked.

When I ask you to I listen to me and you begin to tell me why I shouldn't feel that way, you are trampling on my feelings.

When I ask you to I listen to me and you feel you have to do something to solve my problem, you have failed me, strange as that may seem.

Listen. All I asked was that you listen, not talk or do - just hear me.

Advice is cheap; two cents will get you both Dear Abby and Billy Graham in the same newspaper.

And I can do for myself; Iím not helpless.

When you do something for me that I can and need to do for myself, you contribute to my fear and weakness.

But when you accept as a simple fact that I do feel what I feel, no matter how irrational, then I can quit trying to convince you and can get about the business of understanding what's behind this irrational feeling.

And when that's clear, the answers are obvious and I don't need advice.

Irrational feelings make sense when we understand whatís behind them Perhaps that's why prayer works, sometimes, for some people because God is mute and he doesnít give advice or try to fix things-God just listens and lets you work it out for yourself.

So, please - Listen and just hear me. And if you want to talk, wait a minute for your turn; and I listen to you.

~ Anonymous

A naturally therapeutic person is one who, by a natural response to those in pain, empowers them to realize their own healing potential lies within them, and never in the one who is helping or giving advice.

~ Jaquelyn Small, 1993


Sat, 8 Jan 2005



Good afternoon Mr. Seykota!


I've been up since 6 am reading www.turtletrader.com and your website as well. It gets rather addictive. So much of what you talk about interests me, from psychology, emotions and feelings, and trading.


Just turned 29 and I am finally starting to take a good look at who I am, what has molded me, the toxic and self defeating thoughts that have plagued me most of my life. The influence that my parents have had in my life. From an over critical emotionally detached father to a mother who is overly attached and worries like crazy.


But I sense this worrying may come from a selfish standpoint. I know that I am bright, creative, full of ideas, and capable of just about anything. However, there has been something that has held me back, that something is me. My mind and my underlying negativity, depression, insecurity, and dependency. One thing I do know though is that my motivation to live the life I have imagined is growing on a daily basis.


I would like to get involved in a tribe or attend one of your seminars in 2005. Hopefully you have some seminars planned. Also, if you can provide any information or resources available in NJ/NY area that could help I would appreciate it.

p.s. I have studied and practiced (intermittently) ZEN for years and seems as though a lot of what TTP is about has similarities to this. I still remember the first book I read on ZEN and thought you might enjoy it as well. It's called "Nothing Special: Living Zen" by Charlotte Joko Beck. She has others that I recommend as well.

Best Wishes,

TTP relies on a tribe of receivers to  assist you in experiencing feelings you don't like - until you start to like your feelings and see their positive intentions.


Reading about Zen (or about TTP) are forms of the DIM (Do It Myself) process.




The Young Zen Master


"Your father and I just want you to know that we're behind you one hundred percent should you decide to go back to being a dope addict."


Clip: http://www.duke.edu/web/meditation/



Fri, 07 Jan 2005



Dear Ed,

Happy New Year!!! How are you? I'm proud to tell you I've kept my commitment to show up at the office by 8am daily, and I've witnessed an increase of commitment level and sense of purpose in my life. In addition, I'm proud to not only take the hot seat and experience forms, but also share my experience with fellow tribe members here in [City]. THANK YOU!!! Today's aha ... is another great thing after the hot seat session two days ago. I thank you wholeheartedly.

You know, I feel greatly indebted to you for showing me a new world. As I think back, getting to meet you, getting to know you, getting to ask you questions, getting to learn from you, is one of the greatest gifts I've ever received.


As I reflect, to go through so much with you (some stranger I just read from a book) is simply beyond my imagination. It's also beyond words how much of an immense impact you've had on my life and on how I see things now. I thank you for everything, and I sincerely wish I could keep learning more and more from you, as much as I can, as hard as I can, as much as you'd like to teach. I do everything, because there is nothing more exciting and rewarding than learning from a great teacher.

I can't say enough thank you, and no amount of thanks can express my deep gratitude. I wish you the very best, and let me say it once more, **THANK YOU**!!!!

You are welcome. 


Your allowing me to support you in your growth, helps me grow too.

Fri, 07 Jan 2005


Ohio Trading Tribe

Mr. Seykota,

After reading  Trend Following, I am very eager to learn more. I am a physical therapist by profession with only 6 months of training in investing and using on line tools provided by "Success Magazine's Investor Toolbox". I am a very diligent student in need of better mechanical, mental and psychological strategies than what I possess at this time.

I live in the Columbus, Ohio area and did not see any communities that would be close by. I am interested in how I may become involved in your Intentional Community.

See the Directory page for information.

Fri, 7 Jan 2005


Joining the Incline Village Tribe

Hi Ed,

After reviewing the website, I feel that the TT will be great for me.

I have pursued the DIM method, without great results, and wish to join the group to help myself, and to be part of helping others. The Grof course was one of my more interesting and rewarding experiences. Getting back to work on these issues is exciting to me.

See the requirements for joining IV-TT on the Directory page.

Fri, 7 Jan 2005


Bumping into Walls

Dear Ed,

Just a quick update to my screw-up aha yesterday after my hot seat session the night before. Today I really feel the joy and happily choose to go with the flow of screwing up, if that's what Fred wants me to feel.


I reduce the risk I'm taking to the point where I can fully experience all the screw-up. Bring it on, Fred! Let's see how many creative ways you can come up with to screw me up. I look forward to seeing your creativity. I really do!! Come on, don't tell me that's all you can do. My goal for this system now is just to trade it, and let Fred does whatever he wants to screw up. It's just as if in a TTP session when the receivers encourage me, "Screw up as much as you can! Keep screwing up!!!" :-)

(I really feel now what you mean by the best way to go from Point A to Point B without bumping into the wall, "is to keep bumping into the walls, joyously." All right! I bump, I bump, and I bump even more, ha ha
ha ha ha!!!)

The more you are willing to experience the feeling of bumping into walls, the less you have to bump into walls.



If you are bumping into walls


it might be time

to raise cane.



Clip: http://www.rommes.org/


Fri, 7 Jan 2005


Slow Dance Poem

Email Emotional Blackmail

Hi Ed,

Itís tough to manipulate a veteran Tribe member with emotional blackmail, since weíre willing to experience feelings fully as they come up.


Summary of eRumor:
An email says there is a little girl who has six months to live. People are asked to forward the email about her to as many people as possible because the American Cancer Society will give 3 cents per email to support her treatment. It stars with a poem titled SLOW DANCE. The email is signed with the name of a professor at Yeshiva University in New York.

The Truth:
According to the American Cancer Society, the email is a hoax. The girl in the story is never identified, the American Cancer Society has not made any such commitment, there is no way for forwarded emails to be accounted for even if someone wanted to make a donation for each one, and the professor named at Yeshiva University, Dr. Dennis Shields, says he never had anything to do with any such story. If you dial his number, you get a recording saying the story is not true. There are several versions of this email making the rounds of the Net. Some simply say this is a poem written by a dying girl. Others say the little girl gave it to a medical student. Others say the poem is being circulated by a doctor.

This seems like an attempt to play to guilt. Since I am willing to experience guilt fully, and since I happen know a little bit about technology and that it is not possible to track the number of these emails as is claimed a the bottom of the message, my intuition tells me that this is more likely a sham.

I feel disgusted by this and I decide to check this out for myself on Google by searching for this doctor.

Lo and behold, I find that I am exactly correct.

If you are unwilling to experience the feelings of guilt that this email is designed to bring up, then you fall for the trick and forward it on to everyone. If, on the other hand, you are willing to experience the feeling of guilt as it comes up, then you see straight through the hoax like a lazerbeam through fog.

For more on experiencing your feelings fully and not allowing other to manipulate you based on your own unwillingness to feel your feelings, see: www.tradingtribe.com



Willingness to experience your feelings makes you impervious to emotional blackmail.




See a review at:






Susan Forward

Author and Radio Hostess


also author of Toxic Parents,

Obsessive Love and others



Clip: http://www.susanforward.com/



Thu, 6 Jan 2005




I am a member of a great TTP group, that meets ever second week. A normal meeting consists of two hot seats, so if we are not sending we are receiving. Typically we can expect a hot seat every month and a half or so, provided everyone takes a similar turn. Realizing that TTP does not support the DIM process are there any suggested exercises or processes that you suggest for an individual to get more in touch with their feelings.


Life naturally puts you in touch with your feelings. 


Being in touch with your feelings is not quite TTP.


TTP has to do with learning to like your feelings and to celebrate the positive intentions of your feelings.






is a team sport


Clip: http://www.lingeriebowl.com/


Thu, 6 Jan 2005


I'm Born

Dear Ed,

I had a great TTP session again last night. I was feeling angry about some of my trading losses, where I feel undeserved because I've done everything I could, and yet the actual and theoretical differ wildly, and the results are not pleasant. It happened four days in a row, as every time I worked to fix it such that they could match, the market just found a new way to get to me. It's like whatever you thought to be the right thing to do, it just turned out to be the wrongest thing you could have done. I feel very undeserved, frustrated, and irate. I know somehow I have created this result myself, and I'm eager to find out!

I take all those feelings to the hot seat. I experience that frustration, that turns quickly turns into rage. I was very upset. When I experience that, tears start rolling. I feel fearful and doubtful - what if I just cannot make it to the top? What if I'll remain mediocre for the rest of my life? What if all my efforts will be in vain?

The receivers did a good job teasing me, by reflecting the concept of failure and mediocrity at me.


I am in denial, trying to wave my arms to block them. I don't want to confront it if they are true. I keep waving my arms and soon my whole body just feels uncomfortable. Not a single part feels right. I keep moving around, yet none of the posture feels right. I feel like something in my skin all over my body. I am just not comfortable.

Then it shifts to yelling ("Why!? Why me!?"), to argumentative ("I've done my work!!!! Why don't I get my rewards?!?!?") , to pleading ("What do you want me to do?"). I somehow remember a time when I was a kid and playing ping-pong (by myself, against a wall), and every ball I hit it just won't hit right, and I feel so angry about God that I was yelling at him just like that. And all my questions now are directed to Him.

As I ask, I get back to discomfort all over, and keep moving every part of my body but just couldn't settle down to a position I like. I keep moving, rocking back and forth. I don't know how much of that goes on, until I feel hot. I turn up the heat, and I recall a time I was playing basketball as a teenager on a summer afternoon outdoor. It was hot, and the game was close. I think we lost that game back then, because it was so hot and I was exhausted that I played half-hearted defense. I didn't have that persevere desire to win.


This time I am not letting this happen again. I keep playing hard despite hot and tired, and my breath picks up. I find myself catching my breath, sucking in air. As I increase the intensity of the grasping of air, I almost choke. Thanks to the commitment I've learned from the Breath Work, I am determined to take it as far as I can. If I am feeling choke, well, choke as much as I can. I keep making short and quick breath, sucking in more air, and finally I just puke out, as I throw myself off the hot seat onto the floor. Somehow, this experience just seems to resemble the childbirth

After a very brief rest to get back on the hot seat, I've asked my receivers to help me experience all forms, all in the now. As I keep going back and forth among all the forms - fear, rage, denial, questioning, etc. - I finally settle down into a fetal-like position, at a place even before the childbirth process. However, I feel unpleasant at that place either. It feels somewhat like containment, and I can't breathe well (because I am just breathing back in the carbon dioxide, but at that time I didn't know). I feel increasingly hot, increasingly difficult to breathe. Again, my breath picks up, this time going faster and faster, but I am breathing in less and less. Sometimes I'd feel a blaze of cold air, but then it's back to the hot, warm and uncomfortable air. As I intensify it, I couldn't handle any more, and again, I throw myself off the chair, and onto the floor. I still find it difficult to breathe, or rather, I don't want to breathe. And I hold my breath, and I thought I'd take it all the way. Some air somehow sneaks in, and I try again to hold my breath. Try it again. No matter how uncomfortable / painful it feels (a receiver later comments that my ear has turned purple), I am determined to take it all the way, WHATEVER IT TAKES.

And at the climax, I just explode. I find myself lying on the floor, face up. I am born. I am born into this world. I feel that God is saying to me, "Welcome to this world! Now you go and fulfill your purpose." I feel so calm and peaceful I don't want to move, even though I am on the floor, even though I just had tears and mucus all over my tie and shirts. It just feels so great that I don't want to move. It just feels great here. I am born.

Afterwards they ask me how I feel about the trading mishap. I just feel that it is part of the deal. I have begged and fought to come to this earth, and I am not going to let some trading mishap ruins me. Obstacles are part of the deal of living. It's very interesting that today I have the aha!


I even feel amused at how I am able to come up with new and creative ways every day of screwing up. I guess if Fred just wants to screw up and I may as well do it joyously ... Then shortly later I somehow stumble upon an online discussion forum which I haven't visited in weeks, and one of the posts was about making as many mistakes as you can when your trading capital is still small, note and learn from them so that you won't make them again when you're handling bigger money. Aha! Things just seem to come out of nowhere, when I am committed to fully experience the forms.

Thank you Ed for introducing this TTP thing!! Wow!! :-)

-- I've accepted the mission to inspire others by living the principle of "Giving my absolute effort to do what I love most, and do it REALLY



As long as you dislike frustration, Fred sets up trading dramas in which you get to feel it.


Once you experience your frustration, and see its positive intention, Fred no longer needs to hijack your trading to help you feel it.





The AHA is all about

seeing frustration


as the goal of the game.



Clip: http://www.twiyo.net/lobster/



Thu, 06 Jan 2005


China Tribe


I live in Oahu, Hawaii now , and soon to re-move to mainland China .

I will like to start immediately to congregate in these areas.

A tribe requires consistent attendance, consistent management and a geographical focus. 


You might consider waiting until you settle in China and can provide a more specific address.



China Tribe


Just head for Russia

and go south through Mongolia.


You can't miss it.


Clip: http://archives.cnn.com/2000/US/



Wed, 05 Jan 2005


Rare disease makes girl unable

to feel pain



I wonder if TTP can help her can start feeling pain naturally? Or is CIPA too powerful of a genetic disorder ...

I am not clear from the article about the nature of her insensitivity - for example if it extends to sub-dermal layers, hearing, sight, air pressure, temperature.


To the extent she cannot feel pain, she provides a convincing example of the positive intention of pain.

Wed, 5 Jan 2005


Mirroring and Pacing - see earlier

It is my desire to keep my e-mails to you clear and concise and complete the tasks which I set out to complete, and intend to resolve this issue as I learn more about TTP. Regarding the task in front of me now, I feel that I lack knowledge regarding pacing and mirroring, and am pursuing further knowledge of those terms from the expert.

Mirroring and Pacing are ways to mimic someone.  The mime tries to adopt the posture, expression, breathing style, etc. of the sender.


This is not the same as receiving, unless, of course, the sender is also a mime.




Pacing and Mirroring Work Well


for receiving a mime.


Clip: http://www.gilroydispatch.com/


Wed, 5 Jan 2005


Requested Edit to FAQ

Dear Mr. Seykota,

I request that you edit FAQ ... to delete the reference to ... where I practice and work. The entry pops up on Google searches ... and it would be clear to a large number of people that I am the author.




Thank you for the catch.

Wed, 5 Jan 2005


Workshops Information Request

Dear Mr. Seykota,

I have been reading copiously about you lately and was wondering if you had any workshops coming up in 2005?


I work in FX ... I work nights there on the desk and in my free time have been reading as much as possible about the Turtles and trend trading. I still have not began live trading as I have seen how many mistakes people make being on the other side of things so I am being patient and waiting until I am fully prepared.


I was also wondering if you would recommend the Trend Trading course that is available on www.turtletrader.com ? Any assistance, information, or useful resources you can provide will be received with gratitude. I'm determined to rescue myself from an ordinary life!

Warm Regards,

FAQ does not endorse people or commercial products.  See ground rules.

Wed, 5 Jan 2005


Helping Others

Dear Sir,

I remember you once said that we could not force people into TTP.

Otherwise, it'd like pulling a cat to go in the direction you want, and obviously they'd resist.

Well, I have a question. Let say I know a person who has a habit of stealing, and has a record of such acts. I care about him and believe if he can just experience the feeling he gets from stealing, he may be able to convert it to positive deeds.


Now in order to experience the forms, he needs help. But what if he doesn't want help? What if he doesn't want to experience the forms? I cannot force him to, nor can I can ask him to experience the feelings that prohibits from feeling the forms, because he just refuses to in the first place. I can go on and ask if he is willing to experience the feeling of refusal of help, but then I find myself forcing him into TTP, and obviously he resists.

So what is your suggestion?

Actually, you know what, as I ask, I think I hear your answer already. Experience the feeling of wanting to help, for me. Hmmm, that's interesting. Please let me know your thoughts. Thanks.

The thief may not agree with your definition of "positive deeds."


If you (1) practice TTP yourself and (2) share your experience of it with others who are willing to receive it, you trend toward right livelihood.


If you try to (3) impose TTP (or anything else) on someone else, you may find yourself deep in drama.



If You Try to Impose TTP

on someone who "needs it"


you may encounter resistance.



Clip: http://goto.bilkent.edu.tr/


Wed, 5 Jan 2005


Newfoundland Tribe

One member, me. My real intention may be to NOT start a tribe while indicating otherwise.


Until I clarify what my real intention is I appreciate remaining listed as a willing tribe participant.

You clarify your intention by observing the result.

Tue, 4 Jan 2005


Investment + Cover

Dear Ed,

Thank you for your response to my email of Mon, 13 Dec 2004.

1.The money I mention is purely for investment and I do not need it for living expenses. I have more saved up and if I keep spending at a current rate it is enough for 2 years.


If you accept my investment, I plan to keep it with you and not withdraw anything unless it grows considerably. If it is 100 times bigger, I may withdraw 10%. I want to work out the details with you. If you have any other concerns, let me know. If not, please accept my investment and trade it for mutual benefit.

2.What do you think of the cover of "Technical Analysis of Stocks and Commodities" of December 2004? Is it emotional enough to signal the top?

I want to wish you something good for New Year, but I know that you get what you want regardless of what I wish, so let me just wish you luck and achievement of what you are pursuing.

Rules of Thumb: Speculate with less than 10% of your liquid net worth.  Risk less than 1 % of your spec account on a trade.  Futures risk may be a couple thousand dollars per trade.


Thus, a minimum businesslike futures account is around $250,000 with a minimum liquid net worth is about $2.5 million.


This tends to keep the fluctuations in the trading account small, relative to net worth.  This is essential as large fluctuations can engage Fred and lead to feeling-justifying drama.


See Starting Over, below.




The Magazine Cover Shows


some things going up

and some going down.


Tue, 4 Jan 2005

Maybe your Horoscope

Pisces: (Feb. 19-March 20) When all is said and done, you'll have proven that a tone-deaf man with a banjo and no need to sleep can make a difference in his community.

Keep up the good work. regards ....

Actually, very few banjo players are tone deaf - we take extra good care of our ears so we don't miss the latest banjo joke.



Q: What's Perfect Pitch?


A: Tossing a banjo into a toilet

without hitting the seat.




Q: What's a banjo joke?


A: The way a band expresses

banjo envy.



More banjo jokes at:


Tue, 4 Jan 2005


Starting Over

see Breathwork, below


Sold my [Stock] at a nice hefty loss. Position officially unwound. I commit again to risk no more than 10%. Thank you for your support of this messed up soul.

I have this desire to start trading commodities now.

Aggressive pyramiding, and other forms of accumulating monster positions are good ways to lose big money, even in a bull market.


Merely saying you are committing to risking less than 10% does not keep you from risking more in practice.


When you are willing to experience all the feelings you get when you look at the chart below, you may be able to keep your commitment.




Sometimes Less is More


when you have to hold on

during reactions


Tue, 4 Jan 2005


TT Workshops 2005?

Hi Ed,

Happy New Year!

Just wondering if you have any dates for 2005 workshops yet? As I am in the process of planning my travel for this year and hope to adjust things to coincide with one of your workshops.

Best Regards

PS Love your site, I identify and learn so much about myself every time I read it

Watch this site for Workshop announcements.

Mon, 3 Jan 2005


Alpharetta Georgia

I am starting a trend following trading community in Alpharetta Georgia ...  please post my contact information on your web site.



Welcome !









Clip: http://www.cnn.com/US/9810/19/



Mon, 3 Jan 2005



Mr. Seykota

Great work you did in your site. How ever I have a typical question for you. Plz get back to me.

Consider a Ball of Mass (m) is kept on the top of a Tube of Cross Section "A"
and Height "h1".


Now we are supplying a Gas inside the tube having Flow rate(Q). As per the Bernoulli's Principle the ball is moving height "h2".

1. Need Equation relating the terms, h1, h2, Q and m. (To validate the software).

2. The Same Simple Case we have to simulate in "Fluent or Ansys". But we don't
know how to add the mass term in those software.



The popular interpretation of Bernoulli's Principle (that high velocity causes low pressure) holds for closed systems with no flow motivation and with zero flow rate.


Otherwise, applications of Bernoulli to the physics of lift typically carry flaws.


You might be able to get a sense for your solution by imagining yourself inside your device at various key points and feeling the flows and pressures.


Hint for Science Guys: keep checking your formulas against reality while you run the equation grinder.


For more on Bernoulli, see www.seykota.com/rm

Mon, 3 Jan 2005



Dear Ed,

I had a failure, setback, with my commitment from The Breath Work workshop. I feel totally terrible about it.

I felt it necessary to let you know what happened since you are developing this program.

I went to an eye appointment and the Dr. asked me where I worked. I told him I was laid off in October 2004 from the Stock Market. My brain started to fade. He then went on telling me how his son went to Wharton College. His son then traded bonds for some company and made 5 million dollars in 2 years!

When he told me this it snapped me into a zombie like state. My head went fuzzy and I went home and overbought this stock [Symbol] last Thursday the 30th Dec 2004


I literally could not stop myself! The stock quickly reversed on me and I will have to figure how to sell my 10,000 shares in the next few days. I am on $36,000 margin. Immediately lost $20,000 ouch!

What was more important is that I finally realized I was snapped into this state. I thought about the tribe and you and what just happened. I am taking your training extremely seriously and when you read what is next you will know why.

I don't know if you remember my story at Breath Works about my mom and dad but I thought my problem was a control issue. Well it sort of was. The real issue was that my father got jealous. That was the key word.

The first thing that happened with my father and mother situation was he got jealous of my mothers one serious past relationship! That was the first thing I said during the workshop but I breezed over it quickly. Women had to be so pure in those days for some men to marry them. My father was born in ... 1914 and he died when I was 22. I am 36 now.

Anyway, I got extremely jealous that this young kid made 5 million dollars in 2 years and his father was a Doctor so he could go to a fine school. I went to a state college. My body changed into the numb state my father went into after he received shock treatment.

This method of plunging worked for me for 17 years of trading except for this past year. Down about 30%. I have been stopped out of a lot of breakouts.

The important insights for me came when I finally realized I was jealous. The power of what you are helping me with really hit hard! This is going to help my whole life!

The other thing that was strange was when you wrote (Dec 26th for FAQ) me how some pins value rises when they fall ... you predicted what happened to me.

A whole flood of trading insights hit me. I realized that by the smaller position sizing I can buy the strongest more extended stocks and probably get to that next level that I seek from a few thousand to the millionaire level. I am missing the strongest stocks and the biggest moves because I am (this sounds so stupid) jealous of the people who got in before me. Dumb aint I? I am missing the big meat of the trends worrying about a few points at the bottom and top!

Another thing is that you and [Name] knew right where to attack me. When we were at the restaurant (the first meeting place). [Name] came right at me and said I was betting too big. Then you saw that I was trying to wiggle out of the small bet sizing commitment. I consciously thought it would be easy and could not understand why you guys were doing that.

I did not realize how powerful the subconscious could be. I actually pride my self about not being jealous in relationships and this nasty feeling hid within something I love to do Trading. I cannot be jealous I started with $2,000 and others start with $100,000.

Anyway this might sound silly but it is big to me. I actually feel like I can make money with commodities now. I just have to buy a small contract amounts.

I am sorry I am so slow. Probably your slowest and least educated student. I thank you for your patience with me.

... I will unwind this position and commit again. I cannot lie about my failures. I want you to know what happened so you can know what your work is doing. I am giving myself another chance.

I hope the snow clears out for you Ed.

I also hope help comes to those people in need who were hit by the Tsunami. It makes my situation seem so insignificant.



Maintaining a commitment is particularly important when it comes up for a test.


Somewhere along the line of  keeping your commitment you may get a feeling that you don't like.


If you are willing to experience the feeling, it can transform into an AHA that supports your commitment.


If you are unwilling to experience the feeling, you might abandon your commitment to try to make the feeling go away.


That only results in having to feel the feeling after all.




Annual Meeting


... of Single, Good Looking, Straight,

 Emotionally-Stable, Financially-Secure,

 Intelligent Men Willing to Make a Long-Term Commitment



the ones who are willing to make the commitment are typically not single.


Clip: http://www.joe-ks.com/




Sun, 02 Jan 2005


Conflicting Intentions

Dear Ed,

Thanks for your response on intentions (FAQ Dec 30). It is striking to hear that my intention also plays a part in the South Asia tsunami tragedy (?!?!). It is a stunning thought, and it broadens my view on the intentions of not just a person alone, but the inter-connected intentions among different people.

So what happens when I have an intention to do something, and that many other people have the exact opposite intention of not wanting me to achieve that results?


For example, Hitler had the intention to conquer England, yet Churchill and the English troops had the intention not to let their country fall into Nazi. When two intentions are conflicting, how do they get resolved? Does the "stronger one" eventually wins out? Or is it the case where there cannot exist two conflicting intentions simultaneously, and therefore based on the results we're seeing, Hitler's real intention is to experience defeat and suicide?

INTENTION=RESULTS. Thanks for teaching us this powerful concept.

History shows Churchill and Hitler having the same result (Churchill wins and Hitler loses) - therefore both have the same intention - including experiencing feelings they don't like.


Whatever feelings the Churchills, the Hitlers and all their allies dislike are  likely to come up during massive world-wide drama.




The Intention of a Contest


is to clarify intentions


and to support contestants

and their allies

to experience

a wide range of feelings.


Clip: http://michaelwood.com/krunk/



Sun, 02 Jan 2005



Dear Ed,

Thanks to the FAQ post on 12/25 about Krishnamurti, I dig out his book "Think of these things" that has been sitting on my bookshelf for quite some time. I find one of his quotes very interesting:

That is why you should have very strong feelings - feelings of passion, anger - and watch them, play with them, find out the truth of them; for if you merely suppress them, if you say, "I must not get angry, I must not feel passionate, because it is wrong," you will find that your mind is gradually being encased in an idea and thereby becomes very shallow. You may be immensely clever, you may have encyclopedic knowledge, but, if there is not the vitality of strong and deep feeling, your comprehension is like a flower that has no perfume.

It strikes me because he is encourages finding the truth (= positive intention?) of the feeling it self, instead of suppressing it. Hmmm, sounds familiar. I think I've also heard it from some funny (yet incredibly brilliant) guy from Incline Village who happens to write FAQs.


Sun, 02 Jan 2005

Discretionary vs Mechanical


In his book, "Trading for a living", Dr Alexander Elder has the following to say concerning mechanical trading systems: "Complex human activities do not lend themselves to automation. Computerized learning systems have not replaced teachers, and programs for doing taxes have not created unemployment among accountants. Most human activities call for an exercise of judgment; machines and systems can help but not replace humans.


If you could buy a successful trading system you could move to Tahiti and spend the rest of your life in leisure, supported by a stream of checks from your broker. So far, the only people who have made money from trading systems are the system sellers.


Markets always change and defeat automatic trading rules. Yesterday's rigid rules work poorly today and will probably stop working tomorrow. There are good trading systems out there, but they have to be monitored and adjusted using individual judgment. You have to stay on the ball - you cannot abdicate your responsibility for your success to a trading system. Traders who have the autopilot fantasy try to repeat what they felt as infants. Their mothers used to fulfill their needs for food, warmth, and comfort. Now they try to re-create the experience of passively lying on their backs and having profits flow to them like an endless stream of free, warm milk."

Would you disagree with that opinion?

Is there any room for "intuition" in a trend-trading system?


And thanks for the thought-provoking site.

You might examine the pattern of accumulating agreement - as a way to justify decisions. 


You might consider "receiving"  opinions directly, for yourself - to the point where you can feel the source.



Seeking Agreement


is no substitute

for being able to feel

underlying intentions.



Clip: http://www.users.cloud9.net/





Sun, 02 Jan 2005


Mirroring and Pacing

Would you further explain the actions of mirroring and pacing as understood in the context of TTP?

Thank you

"As understood" depends on who is doing the understanding. 


You can clarify your question by using SVO-p grammar - it requires identification of the S-ubject.


SVO-p = S-ubject, V-erb, O-bject - present tense.



To understand something,


you need an understander.


Clip: http://www.cutestuf.com/


Sat, 1 Jan 2005


Family Tribe

Ed Says: TTP is, at first, not particularly natural or spontaneous - as it brings up uncomfortable feelings.

When we feel uncomfortable, people instinctively go for the fix. They tell us not to feel that way. They try to change the situation to remove the "cause."

They do anything except receive us.

Receiving is encouraging others to feel what they are feeling - providing them with a space to experience freedom to be themselves.

You might be able to get the hang of receiving by attending some Tribe meetings - or by attending a Workshop.

Yes. In such a sense I have already done receiving with my mother, aunt and even grandmother, who was passing away then.

Particularly, with my aunt, who's always been very judgmental and emotionally closed, I guess I was pushing TTP onto her. After six months or so I noticed she couldn't tell a sentence in SVO-p and was just using the meetings to give more "advice" to me, control and enroll me into her dramas. Then I decided that I should stop and work with myself, my need of approval and getting enrolled into her dramas, etc ... I also confronted and told her so. We made good progress though. Yet our meetings were very, very un-comfortable.

With mom things went better. Yet, I still had the perception that she too felt very un-comfortable and was participating just to "please" me, and not out of her own decision. After a while I stopped. I was tired about the whole thing, as I was doing the sending most of the time.

As you say, when people feel uncomfortable they instinctively go for the fix. They typically expect the same from others. Few decide to grow. Well, I tell from experience. I also always have this choice of growing and taking responsibility for my situation and letting others do the same, or just keep re-playing dramas.

One more note Ed: As a matter of fact I do not feel at ease when sending to family members. Typically, they also instinctively go for the fix and do not feel comfortable about receiving. Their usual expectation is that I should always feel O.K. and have no issues.

Implementing TTP into existing social structures can be tricky - as people may prefer preserving the existing structure to growing.


You might consider joining or forming a Tribe from relative strangers.




Some Tribes Have Subtle Politics


that may interfere

with implementing TTP.


Clip: http://www.claycritters.com/





Sat, 01 Jan 2005


Your Birthday and [Famous Trader's]

You are an amazing man who has accomplished so much.


[Famous Trader], in one of the generation of achievers influenced by you, has also.


Am very interested in the commonalities between you. Would you happen to know his birthday -- and yours (which I'm sure you know, and would appreciate receiving)?

Thank you.

Amazingly, every member of the Incline Village Trading Tribe has a birthday in the same year.


What's more, this amazing phenomenon seems to occur again and again, each and every year, without fail.


FAQ does not reveal personal information - although I suspect the trader you cite might also have the amazing birthday phenomenon in common with me and with others.



Clip: http://www.toiletmuseum.com/