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Jun 16 - 25, 2005


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(Quotes from Ed in Red)


Sat, 25 Jun 2005


What Kind of Testing Software?


Sir day before yesterday I read the book called Trend following by Covel. No doubt about the fact that book was quite insightful and very inspiring.


But still it doesn't answer a few of my questions about trend following. How do I make a mechanical trend following system?


I've got excel in my computer and is it possible to make a good trading system on excel or do I need to purchase the a sophisticated software program?

A trading system is an agreement you make between yourself and the markets. 


You can use a number of ways to test the agreement before you make it.


Excel has the advantage that you can see everything the system does.


Other software has an advantage of speed and ease of use.


You might consider starting off with Excel until you get a feel for system trading, and then move on to more specific software for comprehensive testing.


You might also consider auditing a few runs of your testing software with Excel, to make sure you have accurate coding.




Training Wheels

can be a good first step


toward the fast lane.



Clip: http://www.fatwheels.com/

Sat, 25 Jun 2005


How to Develop Discipline




How should I train myself to be disciplined and more patient?

Likely you have some k-nots about discipline and patience. You might consider asking your Tribe to assist you to experience your feelings about both.

Sat, 25 Jun 2005


Zero Point

Can the Zero Point be a lonely, empty and grey place?

Lonely is something, empty is something and grey is something.


These some-things indicate reliance on the DIM process.


A Tribe can help you get through them to the Zero Point.


At the Zero point, you are willing to experience all your feelings simultaneously, absent attachment to any of them.



When Nothing Disappears


you sometimes get

a rabbit.



Clip: http://www.beil.com/


Sat, 25 Jun 2005


Psychology and Trading

Thank you, Mr. Seykota, for the excellent book.


I am a M.D. and Ph.D and I enclose some of my thinking on the psychology of the markets, below.


Your Rat Brain Is Out To Get You

People are neurotic and the markets, since they are large collections of people, are also neurotic.

We are neurotic because we are in constant conflict with ourselves, specifically as regards our brain structure.

In the simplest of terms, we have two brains- and old brain and a new brain. The old brain is primitive, lies deep within the new brain and has been around for at least 100,000 years. This is the rat brain or limbic area ( colored brain areas in the diagram) that sub-serves emotion and instinct and caused our ancestors to run up a tree when the grass started to move just in case there might be a lion lurking around somewhere.

This is our emotional, greedy, needy, old rat brain which is constantly telling us "Yes, Yes, Yes!" Eat more, drink more, have more sex, take lots of risk, grab for all the gusto you can get, run away quickly when you are threatened or feel danger, run in quickly when things seems so wonderful, and, above all DO NOT THINK! The rat brain is irrational.

As the human brain evolved, the old rat brain became encased in and covered over by the new brain called the neocortex (the large beige brain areas in the diagram). This is the new thinking, analytical, calculating, rational brain. Every time the rat brain says "Yes Yes Yes", the rational brain says "No No No." Don't do that because it is dangerous, makes no sense, is self-destructive, is not in the best interests of you or your family or society, is not smart, could cause you damage, is illogical.

The new brain is rational. The old brain has been around for at least 100,000 years, but the markets have existed for about 200 years. The new brain has a lot of catching up to do in order to make us consistently successful in the markets!

All day, and even in sleep, we are waging a war within our brain.

Oh, yes! I would love to do this or that BUT I really shouldn't because it might not be good for me or it would hurt me or hurt someone else. But- hey- what harm could it really do? Could I get away with it? Yes, Yes ... I could. No, No ... I really couldn't and shouldn't and I won't. But- it maybe I could do it a little and see and then and so on and so forth until we are literally out of our minds with conflict.

No wonder there is so much anxiety and depression in the world today and that at least one person you know ( maybe that person is you) is on psychotropic medications or seeing a shrink.

OK, ... enough of this theory. So what if I am on drugs for depression and anxiety or in therapy or thinking about it or feeling like I am losing it? What does this have to do with me and the markets and making money?

EVERYTHING! Really more than everything since we know so little right now and are just starting to see advances.

We are hardwired to make bad financial decisions because of our limbic rat brain.

The rat brain is not capable of evaluating risks and projecting them into the future. It reacts immediately, instinctually and without thought. Inexperienced traders ( and even some of the most experienced),
when faced with a conflict between rationality and emotions, will act on emotions. The old rat brain wins the battle and it wins over and over again.

Aversion to loss, which is a disproportionate fear of risk makes a lot of sense from an evolutionary standpoint when we were in the jungle running from wild animals, but makes no sense whatsoever in the markets.


When we see a stock or future position falling, our brain ( and body, but that is another topic altogether) reacts as if we are being threatened.

Dumping a position when you see it falling is like running up a tree because you THINK a lion might be lurking. Running up a tree won't hurt you, but dumping a position on emotion can wipe you out. That is panic selling.

How often have you done this? Panicked out of a position only to see it turn around without minutes to days? That is your rat brain in charge and your logical brain completely taken over by emotion.

It also works the other way. When you see a stock going up and up every day, the rat brain tells you that it will continue to go up and you better get in now because you are missing out. This is panic buying. You get in and the stock starts to fall so you panic out of it as well.

The rat brain loves heuristics. These are mental shortcuts which link past patterns to potential rewards or losses. Such is the case with irrational exuberance and irrational non-exuberance. This is why most traders buy high and sell low. Their rat brain takes over and they are powerless against it.


The rat brain wants results NOW. The new brain is patient and waits and analyzes.

Our goal on the path to becoming successful traders is to understand ourselves, deeply, intimately, and on a minute to minute basis when we are in the midst of making financial decisions.


This is among the most challenging tasks you will ever be asked to do and it will take time, patience and the ability to be rigorously honest with yourself.

For now, understand and try to be with yourself in a calm and centered space during the trading day.

Try to tune out the noise and constant barrage of information. Pay very close attention to yourself and try to come in tune with your feelings.


You will feel greedy when you should be feeling fearful and fearful when you should be feeling greedy. 


This is your rat brain playing tricks on you and fighting with the logical rational side of you that is able to sit back, analyze and realize that that the waving grass may not be a lion to fear but an omen that something wonderful is coming your way.

I notice some differences in approach between your methods and TTP. 


My experience is that TTP tends to fortify and extend the power of most other disciplines. Excerpts from your send are in blue.


Your Rat Brain Is Out To Get You


This notion does not conform with my experience of hundreds of TTP practitioners.  In TTP we do not try to alarm people or create a sense of urgency or try to scare them..


the markets have existed for about 200 years.


We have evidence of markets prior to 1800. The Bible cites brisk trade in debt instruments in the Temple.


All day, and even in sleep, we are waging a war within our brain.


In TTP we do not view the limbic system as an enemy.  We see it as an ally that collaborates with the Conscious Mind. 


Aversion to loss ... makes a lot of sense ... in the jungle ... but makes no sense whatsoever in the markets.


Aversion to loss makes sense in the jungle and it also makes sense in the markets.


Our goal on the path to becoming successful traders is to understand ourselves ...


In TTP, we do not aim for understanding.  We aim to experience our forms, and convert our feelings from adversaries into allies


For now, understand and try to be with yourself in a calm and centered space during the trading day.


In TTP, We do not attempt to advise people to change.  If someone is upset and off-center, we encourage him to become even more so.


You will feel greedy when you should be feeling fearful and fearful when you should be feeling greedy. 


We do not attempt to advise,

predict the future or tell people what they should do.


We do not conduct our work in a one-on-one setting or use a therapist. 


We do use the power of a healing field of acknowledgment, available only in a group.


Members takes turns on the hot seat, so the roles frequently reverse.


Tribe meetings are free.


A therapist who charges clients by the hour may have an inherent conflict of interest - and feel financial pressure to create a co-dependent relationship - to exploit the client rather than set him free.




The Rapists







Clip: http://www.wga.hu/art/r/



Clip: http://www.kayconcepts.com/


Sat, 25 Jun 2005


Lake-Like Exit and Breakout

I am putting together a study for the trading tribe. Here is an excerpt:


The above breakout (buy signal) is determined by the following rules:

1. Today’s price at day (p) is greater than yesterday’s price.

2. Today’s price at day (p) is greater than the exit price.

3. Today’s price is at a trading day high or higher. Price at day (a) is less than price at day (p).

4. Today’s liquidity (price*volume) is x times greater than the average liquidity. The average liquidity is calculate by summing the price * volume from day at (a) to day at (p) then dividing the price * volume given by day at (p). Here’s the formula: Change in liquidity = (today’s liquidity)/ (average liquidity). Today change in liquidity is greater than x.

The exit price is calculated as a trailing exit. It is the highest price from price at day (a) to price a day (e). Each trading day, the day at (e) is incremented and the exit price is evaluated. If one erects a dam a day (e), and one fills the area to the left of the dam with water unit it pours out day at (a), the exit price is at the high water level. In the case when the water level is lower than the price at (e) the price at (e) is used as the exit price.

What is measured?

The number of trading days between (a) and (p).

The number of trading days between (e) and (p).

The change in liquidity (a multiplier).

See the Studies Page via the Resources link, above for instructions for submitting your work to this site.

Sat, 25 Jun 2005


London Workshop


I am reporting 12 people in the UK would like to have a Workshop in London.

I like the idea of a Workshop in or near London.



Now what's all that

drumming business

in the back of the House?


What's the world coming to, anyway?


Next thing you know

we'll all be listening to each other.


Clip: http://i.timeinc.net/time/


Fri, 24 Jun 2005


Buddha Fractal


Clip: http://www.complexification.net/



Fri, 24 Jun 2005




Hope all is well. On page 120 in your book, under the heading option #2 you say:


The trader takes the hot seat and locates his k-nots about the trades he is willing to follow.


I understand TTP in a way where the trader locates his k-nots about the trades he is UN-willing to follow. Is this a typo? Thank you for such a great book.

Nice catch.


The item now appears under errata at the Book link, above.

Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005


Book Shipment

Hey there. I placed an order for Ed's book a couple of weeks ago and I was wondering what the status of the order was.


Our tracking shows the status as delivery to a transposition of your zip code.


We are sending you another book, to your correct address and zip code..





Transposition Works Well in Music


not so well in handling orders


for stocks, futures

and books.



Clip: http://www.musicteachers.co.uk/



Fri, 24 Jun 2005


About Your Book


Hi Ed!

I am from Turkey and I want to buy your book. I will pay by credit card thorough PayPal. But how do you send the book? Airmail or other possibilities (UPS, DHL etc...?)

See the Book link, above, for details.

Fri, 24 Jun 2005


Creating Terror

Hi Ed,

I just read a testimonial in your book which I relate to. Like myself, a person noted having a stuttering problem which attributed to k-nots.


I can remember as a kid in school the absolute terror I felt when the teacher was going around the classroom asking students to read paragraphs out of a book ... my heart jumping out of my chest, vocal cords in a knot, trembling, etc. I could do nothing but hope I wasn’t picked.

I now get a milder feeling like this whenever I open a discretionary trade.


I’m trying to figure out why I would create that feeling for myself again since I hate it so much.


Is it because I didn’t fully experience the feeling back then? It sure felt like I felt something, although I certainly didn’t express it to anyone.


Perhaps I’m trying the DIM process and not even realizing it. Is feeling the feeling the DIM process and feeling the feeling and expressing it TTP?


Please offer some insight oh wise one.

Thanks for creating this forum.

Fred tends to create situations in order for us to experience feelings we have in k-nots.


You might consider taking your feelings of Terror (and your feelings about the feeling) to your Tribe, as entry points.



Stress May Associate

with public speaking,


also with cutting losses,

riding winners,

trading with the trend

and managing risk.


Clip: http://www.southalabama.edu/


Fri, 24 Jun 2005


Logic and Hype

Hello Ed,

Logic is a common individual practice in favor of survival as a group; Hype is a group effort of unwillingness to practice logic for the lack of individual knowledge on survival as a group.

I heard that 90%+ lose money constantly in trading, so if the majority is doing something in the same does not mean they are right?

I have seen how the majority of people live including myself, some people have restaurants that serve delicious greasy food and most of us can't cook blaming the fast-paced life-style.


We learn in schools a lot of information without knowing why we are learning it which replaces the basic human survival capabilities of “struggling to wonder why to figure things out”, we have a huge confusion when it comes to religions and no one clearly knows its purpose other than it is naive “good” or one will have an extreme opinion and not a single scientific understanding, …

Most people ability of counting the probabilities and their outcome is shrank which leads to underestimating that basic human needs are more than enough to anyone to reach an extreme level of productivity, most people want to make 1 billion dollars but they will never do, its not because of the lack of luck or effort but it’s the lack of purpose, the lack of plan, they miss the whole point, money is not a goal, it is a result.

When I study the charts I never count dollars, all I deal with is points (pips), because designing a robust system is not related to money but it is related to the profit/loss ratio, how much money you need to trade can only be determined after you put down the probabilities and their outcomes and only then you can see how many dollars you are going to lose before you stop trading all together or never trade until you have the money needed for the system.


It is all about having a plan and having a plan is simply counting the probabilities and preparing actions that are triggered by their outcomes.


Then, discipline is your only chance to get a statistical edge out of your system be it good or bad you will learn something good.


You might consider taking your feeling of wanting to figure it all out to your Tribe, as an entry point.


Meanwhile, you might like some more puzzles to figure out:




Build This


... and ...




Count the Dots


... and ...





Determine the Direction






Thu, 23 Jun 2005


What are emotions?

Hello Ed,

I was thinking this morning about love and hate, I mean why do we love or hate?


I think hate is like a stop-loss which when hit makes us feel the heat and back up from what is harmful, while love is like a position that moved in our favor, the whole thing can be a survival mechanism.

Yet in some cases we favor not to experience hate so the love we had turns to “Hope” and we do the wrong thing by holding onto the subject regardless of the change in the situation.

So actually Romeo and Juliet kind of intense love is wrong in terms it maybe the unwillingness to experience other emotions like responsibility to other people and so on.

Not sure, maybe we humans are not what we are, we are what we are doing, I feel this when I am doing charts, most of the time lose track of everything during 3-4 hours, somehow lose track of time and all what I can see and remember is numbers on screen, It feels like I am a number that keeps changing.

Philosophers seem to like to define emotions, particularly love.


In TTP we do not attempt to define feelings. We intend to experience them and metaform them from adversaries to allies.






is the process

of changing something

by experiencing it differently.



Clip: http://www.bdimaging.com/userfiles/



Thu, 23 Jun 2005


Economist Cover

Ed !

The current cover of The Economist is a painting of a brick - symbolizing housing prices - falling to earth from what appears to be a very great height. In FAQ, on 5 March 2004 you write:

The Economist, home to some of the best funny-mentalists around, seems to have an uncanny knack of calling market turns with its cover art.

With it, you show The Economist cover for February 7, 2004 with the title: Let the Dollar Drop. As we know, the dollar rose.

Following that inference, the current cover indicates housing prices are likely to rise even though this is not a market turn.


Is The Economist's uncanny knack of calling market turns with its cover art at an end, or does it have an even better knack than you originally suggested?





Economist: June 18 Cover


The image characterizes a situation

that is not occuring now,

in late spring, early summer.


Perhaps the meaning might be clearer

after the fall.



Clip: http://www.economist.com

Wed, 22 Jun 2005


Well, if it's in print, it must be true.

Mr. Ed Seykota,

I have realized that I'm not smart enough to predict what the markets will do in the future, and I doubt that Wall Street's "experts" can do better than me. So I've decided to trade based on a mechanical system.

After making research I have found that Trend Following is the best I can use, because it is the most logical (buy what is going up, sell what is going down) and because it fits my personality.


I'm very disciplined so I can see my profits vanish without taking action, even though I know that it is a very hard task. I also like the fact that it defies conventional wisdom, Trend Following is considered unnatural by those who preach the buy-low/sell-high approach.

Tons of books are written every day on how to trade like Warren Buffett, his buy and hold approach has worked nicely for him, he has great talent on finding bargains, but after researching and testing his approach I noticed that I don't share his talent.

Unfortunately there is not much information on Trend Following, the only book I found was one written by Michael Covel, which is good, but doesn't go deep into the trading system.

I've started testing some systems with stocks with mixed results. I've mixed a 20-day breakout as an enter price with a 5-day low as an exit, I have also tested a 20 & 10, 55 & 20, and I recently discovered an article written by you in which you mention 4, 9, 18 SMAs. I have also been testing a 15 Trend Trigger Factor which also seems to be good.

But I think that the best thing to do is to follow only one formula, but I'm not sure which is the most reliable. I would appreciate very much your advice on this matter.

Kind regards,

Please be careful of articles that happen to carry my name.  Many are apocryphal.


I do not recall one similar to the one you cite.  You might challenge the source as to its authenticity.




Wed, 22 Jun 2005


Wants Blessing


I started trading and got my first stop-loss, feel so good, I feel I have been there before from the amount of time I spent on the charts.

I am trading 0.1 lot on a Mini account of $5,000 on 200 point intervals and 100 point stop-loss below interval.

Since I have very limited capital, every stop loss will cost $100 that equals to 2% of total equity of $5,000 allowing me to sustain 50 stop-losses.

The system will buy/sell on fixed intervals all the time, I even have two accounts each with $2,500 which I can shuffle around, one account will buy and the other will sell in order to filter out direction and compound profitable positions.

Buying/selling every 200 points will make 2000 points profits if the market moves 1000 points (200+400+600+800), therefore I can sustain 20 stop-losses (=%2000) along the way and will still break even.


If there are more stop-losses then I will have another 30 stop-losses (=$3000) to hang-on until a trend forms and I get out with profits or little losses, if both happen and I get 50 stop-losses then I will take the coming stop-losses from my own salary, if the damn trend doesn’t form then I am screwed and I have learned a lesson.


The point is I have to begin trading somewhere, yes charts are fun but there is nothing like being hit by the probabilities which I am sure I will discover lots of them that I could not with my own brain knowing that if I failed to discover them I can let them discover me, it’s the same thing.

Ed your blessings please.

You might consider blessing your own trading with some study of trading systems and some back-testing.


If your system uses stops, be sure to enter them.




Sometimes a Blessing


looks a lot

like waving good bye

to a "good buy."


Clip: http://www.jeunesse-ardente.net/



Tue, 21 Jun 2005


Next Workshop

Dear Ed,

When is your next workshop? I am interested in becoming a member of the tribe.

Thank you,

I have no definite plan for another Workshop at this moment of now.

Tue, 21 Jun 2005


Workshop Update

Dear Ed,

Here is my progress report per my commitment to you at the May Workshop.

Prior to the Workshop, I feel myself sinking into "not now" and being consumed by rage, sadness, blame, resentment, shame, and other adversary feelings I do not know how to express effectively. Within a short time, I am expressing nothing real, just existing and feeling heavy and dull. At given moments, I twist my lips into smiles that do not extend to my heart.


Then, the Workshop. I learn some valuable intellectual information and write it on a paper. I enjoy the drumming and feel the beat resonating through my body and want to keep on drumming for a long time.


I take the hot seat and my receivers encourage me to show many different body movements and sounds that spontaneously come up and out of me. I wind up sprawled face down on the floor in the first state of peace I can remember. The next day, I take the hot seat and my receivers encourage me to wail and sob from a lonely and neglected place encompassing probably [age] years. I wind up slouched in my chair in a position of complete release, like a balloon that has expelled all its air.

I notice my shoulders which I usually hold in a rigid tension are settled comfortably down where nature may have intended.

Since the Workshop and in the moment of Now, I am engaged in "Letting Go" and
delighting in feelings of freedom and clarity.


This includes freedom from old limiting messages, freedom from needing to please other people and help or fix them, freedom from assuming the worst and overreacting. I listen in a different way and ask for more information in conversations. I am awkwardly and doggedly revealing information about myself when I feel it is important to do that. I am more alert. I am less concerned with what others think of me.

I cannot explain my process as to how or why I like being in my own skin now.

I spend many years reading self-help books and trying different therapies. I gain something from each. I feel I gain my life from the Workshop. I have uncomfortable days and times when I want to move out of my skin again.


I pause and remember the drumming and my receivers and my Workshop "family." I am willing to become acquainted with rage, grief, pain, hurt, sadness, and all my other feelings so I can keep letting go and being free right now and right now and right now ...

Yes !

Mon, 20 Jun 2005


FAQ - Egos and Trading

Dear Ed,

First of all, please kindly accept my congratulations and gratitude for your excellent site.


I started reading the FAQ's right from January 2003 and am now reading the FAQ's of mid-April 2003. I find people like you so rare in the sense that you share your knowledge and the RIGHT PATH with everyone and also the fact that you are most humble.

I have done my MBA from one of the premier institutes and am a very active short term trader ( I know that you abhor activity ) and since most of my trades are profitable (sometimes everything will work !), I think it will require some working on myself to blend what I am doing presently and moving with the flow.

I see a lot of similarity in what you say of going with the flow and the total annihilation of the ego.


One of the ways of spirituality is to be totally devoted to the Lord and one way of that devotion is to renounce one's life to the Lord. I find this method of spirituality to be one wherein the renounce just erases his identity / his ego / his mind / his wishes to the Supreme being and be one with nature and HIM.


In this sense, I see the similarity that one must just dissolve all thoughts such as what the market should do / why it should do AND in order to be successful, one must go with the flow.


Egos and minds must be totally removed and one must surrender to the flow. Also when one does not have any ego, one becomes totally transparent and does not hold any feelings by staying with the flow. One learns to accept feelings for what they are.

I'd like to ask you whether is it better to:



just accept the feelings, experience them many times over to the extent that there are no feelings (i.e shed the feelings to the point where they do not exist) OR



allow the feelings to remain so as to constantly remind yourself of the positive things that feeling have.

I am in the process of joining a trading tribe here and hope to learn to feel my feelings , dissolve my ego and live with the flow of life.

In TTP we do not intend to eliminate our feelings nor do we intend to allow them or disallow them.


We do not intend to annihilate the ego, or surrender to anyone or renounce anything.


In TTP, we support each other in experiencing feelings that we have in k-nots.


In the process we metaform our feelings from adversaries to allies.



Annihilation of Positron (e+)

produces a gamma-ray

and eventually an

electron-positron pair.


thus answering the

annihilation question:


where does the e+go?



Clip: http://teachers.web.cern.ch/








Mon, 20 Jun 2005


Money Manager


Thanks for your response to my question about managing my money.

What is the minimum investment you manage?

When I go to the market for groceries I manage about $100 at a time.


When I go to the market for futures, I manage fractions of pennies.

Mon, 20 Jun


Wants to Set Up New Tribe

I am inquiring above setting up a TT Group in [City].

See the Tribe Directory, above for directions.

Mon, 20 Jun 2005


What Vehicle Rocks your Boat?

Hello Ed,

Ed Says: "Thank you for your vote of confidence. At this time I do not offer a vehicle to accommodate a $2,000 investment."

So what amount(s) accommodates your vehicle(s)?

Or what vehicles accommodate your amounts?

Or what vehicle is analogous to your trading system?

Or what vehicle do you hope is analogous to your trading system?

There are times in my investing career where I felt I have been:

in the Space Shuttle
on a roller-coaster
in a Ferrari
in a bus
in a Chevy
in a $2000 junker
in a parked car, but not necking
in a tank being hit by armor piercing shells from friendly fire!

I like the feel of a Ferrari, but sometimes simple transportation works better.


Also, as I get older, my financial vehicles change.


I want stability, low maintenance, and something gets me from one location to another.

An investor who is clear on his intention to win, can do so with any vehicle.





Stability, Low Maintenance,

and Simple Transportation


that gets the rider

from one here and now

to another.






Mon, 20 Jun 2005


Doubts Intentions



I see Sugar #14 crashing this morning ... I doubt this is a result of your intentions.

In the Responsibility Model, we are all responsible for everything.


My intention, as I notice from the chart below, is for Sugar 14 to be at 21.22 on Jun 20.


It is also to have it at it's current price, right now.


It is also to have you doubting this.




Sugar 14

Price on Jun 20 = 21.22


Doubt it or not.

Mon, 20 Jun 2005


Track Records



Do you happen to keep track of how well your fellow Tribe's man do in real world when it comes to intentions = profits?

I receive many reports from people describing their personal growth in many areas, including prosperity.


Some of them appear on these pages.


FAQ does not reveal personal information about contributors.  See Ground Rules.

Sun, 19 Jun 2005


Joining the Tribe

Ed: I'm interested in joining the tribe. I'm in Phoenix, AZ, but it's unclear to me from the status of the link on the tribe page whether the local is active or not. Is it?

To determine if a tribe is active

and / or if you can join, contact the leader.


Sun, 19 Jun 2005



Ed writes: Intention = Results. To determine your intention, you simply notice the results you are getting. This act puts your intention, your result and your Responsibility all in the moment of now. If you don't like the result you are getting, you notice you also do not like your intention. You can change your intention.

Every time I begin this process I feel elated that the answer is staring me in the face. Then inevitably I feel I need to think this out.


Why are my intentions not aligned with my results. I pause I go numb, I know it's my fault. Maybe I don't know what I really want.

I need to think this out. Like a child that has lied I divert my attention to something else.


How does your statement and my situation differ? I'm not in the moment of NOW. I have done this all my life. I work at staying in the NOW.

To manifest your result, try putting some tension in your intention.


In physics, tension is the force acting on a banjo string or along the top of a bicycle bicycle chain, pulling the back gear around.




Tension Makes Things Move

and holds things together.


Putting things in tension

 helps manifest intention.


Clip: http://www.popartuk.com


Sat, 18 Jun 2005



Dear Ed,

I recognize you have innumerable demands on your time from people like myself looking for advice. I understand if you can't respond to my note.

I was a professional trader for eight years. I built and traded electricity and natural gas portfolios for [Firm]. Their trading operation was originally a joint venture with [Brokerage House].


I was among the first front office personnel they brought in to build their business. By any measure, my time there was successful. But some time after [Broker] left the venture and [Big Oil Company] collapsed, the industry changed and I was no longer enjoying the work.

Sarbanes Oxley cast a long shadow on our desk and the company gradually reverted to its staid utility ways. Energy trading came to be regarded as at best a necessity and at worst an annoyance. The quarterly earnings cycle governed most position taking. Desk VaR was permanently dialed down. I left late last fall with an open door to return.

I've resisted going back into the electricity markets. They are frustratingly illiquid. I realize that to get to the next level, I need to manage proprietary capital in markets that are tradable.


To that end, I've been reading incessantly while guiding my mindset to crystallize around the right opportunity. I want to be an apprentice to an exceptional trader. I'm 34, single and living in San Francisco.

I'm indifferent to compensation and will travel wherever that opportunity exists. I've endured endless political battles, a FERC investigation, dozens of eight figure losses (and one nine figure, compliments of [State]) and on and on. I have a lot to offer someone who wants a trainable, analytical, tenacious mind in their operation.


As a value proposition, I could put an individual or firm into the energy complex if I would gain exposure to an accomplished pro. My goal is to master multiple markets. Can you point me to someone who might be interested? Do you have any advice of a general nature?

Your website is a valuable resource and I admire your accomplishments.

I hope to hear from you.

I am not clear what value you intend to bring to your employer.


In case you, too, are not clear, you might take your issues about your career to your tribe as an entry point.





Getting What You Want

is fairly easy


once you decide

what you want.



Clip: smseitz.home.att.net/ rule.htm


Sat, 18 Jun 2005


Change in Tribe Directory

Dear Ed,

On your home page our Tribe appears two times.

Please delete one.

The record now stands correctly.

Sat, 18 Jun 2005



Re: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 - Kepler

The contributor's premise - that the moon's orbit is -not- elliptical, is incorrect. The Moon's orbital eccentricity is a substantial 5.49%.


For more information, see:









Nice Catch.

Fri, 17 Jun 2005


Trading Tribe Book

Dear Ed,

I received and read your book. It's excellent. It clarifies a lot of posts that appear on FAQ. It really is an excellent work and I congratulate you for sharing the TTP experience with others.

One thing caught my attention. It is the paragraph in which you express surprise for writing the book:

"Life seems full of surprises and paradoxes ... I come from an emotionally undemonstrative family and I have a track record of two divorces."

As I see today, thanks to what I learned from you, there is no surprise or paradox in that.


Growing in an emotionally undemonstrative family and having a track record of 2 divorces is not good, nor bad. It just "is"; and the feelings that arose from that situation are neither good nor bad.

Allow me to share my impression: the book is simply the result of your new allies which you have first judged or labeled as bad feelings about your background.

I learned that Fred doesn't care if you have little formal training in psychology, personal growth, or even writing. Fred just wanted you to feel the feelings you were unwilling to experience. When you did that, you got what you always wanted.

Congratulations again and thank you very much.



I do not not judge the events as good or bad. 


I find writing a book surprising, even amazing. 






wonder, amazement and joy


are cousins.



Clip: http://www.chaosmedia.com/Gwyneth


Fri, 17 Jun 2005


New Chief

Hi Ed,

The [City] Trading Tribe recently selected a new chief.


Please update the Trading Tribe Directory.



The directory now stands with your update.

Fri, 17 Jun 2005


Caracas Trading Tribe

I'm starting a tribe with [Name] who purchased the Trading Tribe book from
you. We meet once a week. Thanks and regards.








Fri, 17 Jun 2005


Errata Page

Chief Ed,

You may consider creating a separate Book "Errata page" for all Book typos found etc.

Book readers may conveniently find it, and print it out, while others readers may conveniently ignore it.

Nice Catch.  The Errata section now appears as a part of the Book Link, above.

Fri, 17 Jun 2005


TTP Receiving and Somatic Mirroring

Chief Ed,

I read in TTT page 68 paragraph 3:

"Some of the other tribe members notice their own legs moving around."

This generates some general questions. Here they are:

1. Is it common at tribe meetings for receivers to take on (or "mirror") the posture and overall body attitude, even the facial expressions of the sender, when receiving? (My best guess is "yes")

2. Can going with spontaneous somatic mirroring behavior when receiving in fact be a very strong and effective receiving technique? (My best guess is "yes")

3a. Is there an optimal point (or points) in the process of receiving, where such somatic mirroring techniques may be optimally effective?

3b. Is there a similar point (or points) in the process of receiving, where somatic mirroring techniques may be in fact quite ineffective, or even counter-productive?

3c. Is acute awareness and understanding of somatic mirroring (and associated timing/sequencing of same in TTP receiving) a property of highly skilled TTP receivers?

4. The TTP description of effective receiving seems to describe a set of intensely verbal methods. I may be missing some TTP writing about non-verbal somatic mirroring receiving techniques in TTP. I search TTT and FAQ for clues. Please comment on the relationship, if any, between effective verbal vs. (non-verbal) "somatic mirroring" TTP receiving techniques.

Mirroring and pacing are incidental and non-essential to TTP.


Answers to questions about the book appear at the Book link above. 


Click here for a more complete answer to your questions.

Fri, 17 Jun 2005 11:24:03 +0100


Wants to Sell the TT Book

Link to bookshop


This is the link to how to my co-branded bookshop.

You may purchase copies of my book, through the Book link, above.  Once you own it, you may do with it whatever you please, including re-selling it.



The Trading Tribe Book Itself


finally becomes a commodity.


Fri, 17 Jun 2005


Wants to Contact a Contributor

Hello Ed,

On June 9th in your FAQs a Russian living in the UK expressed an interest in starting a tribe or at least communicating with someone. If you felt it appropriate you could let me have his / her e-mail or send him / her this one.

I am located in Scotland and am not a member of any of your tribes as I live in a remote location.

For information on joining and / or starting a Tribe, see the Tribe Directory link, above.


FAQ does not reveal the identity of contributors.  See Ground Rules.

Thu, 16 Jun 2005


Wants to Be a Client


Thank you for your response. I have several follow up questions:

1. I am talking to several friends about pooling our funds in order to reach your minimum suggested $250,000 investment. Would you be willing to invest for a group?

2. I cannot find the books you have written through the normal distribution channels. How do I purchase them?

3. I continue to read on the subject of trading and am interested in getting together with others who are interested in it, either in the Los Angels area or in the Sacramento/Davis/Lodi/Stockton Area. May I join your group?

1. Occasionally I accept a client, after determining if we are a good match for each other. I do not base my willingness to engage a relationship solely on money.


2. For information on my book, see the Book link, above.


3. For information on joining the Incline Village Trading Tribe and other Tribes, see Tribe Directory, above.


Fri, 17 Jun 2005


No Interest

Dear Ed,

I hope you are well, you didn't fully answer my question about reproducing the words you placed with the pictures on your site ...


May I place some pictures and your comments on my site?



Regarding you comments about telling my friends about TTP, I have done this before already, and nobody was interested.




Regarding your Book

I enquired about your trading tribe book at the largest UK financial bookshop, and they don't have it. I mentioned you to the manager and told him you are highly regarded, and well known from the market wizards interview, and he expressed an interest in taking a shipment of you book.


I have taken a co-branded online bookstore on my site, and I can offer discounts on special promotions. So, your book (together with some of my other favorites) can be on sale on my website, I will get 5-15% of sales, you will make your slice, and the bookshop will also be happy.

You may quote me, with attribution and a link to the item on my site.


For permission to use images on FAQ, contact the sources, per the attributions below the images.


I do not sell The Trading Tribe book through any other vendors.  The only source is through this site, or through someone who gets it through this site.


If you have a pattern of no one showing interest in things you do, you might use your feelings about it as a TTP entry point.




Available on this Site


and only on this site.

Thu, 16 Jun 2005



Dear Ed,

Ed says (FAQ 6/11):

If It Doesn't Flow, take a break and experience the stuck-ness. This works for a lot of things, like writing FAQ and Trading

I take that as meaning if we feel stuck during our trading, we may consider taking a break and experience the stuck-ness.


However, doesn't it imply a form of DIM since most of us trade alone?




Experiencing feelings, on your own, is a DIM process.


The DIM process works fine for feelings you are already willing to experience, feelings you have on your emotional instrument panel.


Hunger tells you to eat, fatigue to rest, fear to get out of the way, etc.


If the feeling does not inform you and does not pass, or if you do not like the feeling, you might have it in a k-not. 


In that case, you can take it to your Tribe to develop willingness to experience it.





informs us it's time to eat.



Clip: http://www3.telus.net/Rojay2/


Thu, 16 Jun 2005


Broccoli Fractal


Very fine natural fractals ... aha ha ha




You can look up the formula

for fractal broccoli


in a vege table.


Clip: http://www.miqel.com/


Tue, 14 Jun 2005


Link to Stocks

Hi Ed,

The link on your resources page:



is out of date. Does the link:



contain the same report that is referenced?



Nice catch !