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TT Associates - Chart Server


June 11 - 20, 2006


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(Quotes from Ed in Red)


Tue, 20 Jun 2006


The Associates Program In Action

Hi Ed,

I am in a crisis of confidence.

Since [discovering an unsupportable assumption in my back-testing method] I feel I may be trading a losing system under the delusion it is a winning system ...

The logical response is to stop trading ... until we can re-test ...

I await your response with fear and trembling.

Congratulations ! 


Your reactions are consistent with being a Trading Tribe Associate.


My intention is to support you in having a great system and in being able to follow it.


While we re-program the system, you might consider your taking fear and trembling and your insights about your system to your Tribe as entry points.



Galloping Gertie


November 7, 1940, the midsection of the Tacoma Narrows Bridge crashes into the waters below.

Records show the bridge exhibiting wavelike motions (in response to cross-winds) during the final stages of construction.


Soon after its official opening, July 1, 1940, the bridge gains a reputation for its serpentine movement and gains the nickname, Galloping Gertie.


Over the next few months the bridge remains open to the public while engineers conduct experiments on a scale model.


Clip and Information: http://www.lib.washington.


Tue, 20 Jun 2006


Attaining The Joy Point

Hi Ed,

With reference to FAQ Monday 19th June, 2006 - "Irritation & maybe more", Ed says;

"You might consider taking your senders past the Zero Point (point of acceptance), all the way to the Joy Point.

At the Joy Point, the sender feels peaceful and also joyous about his insights and about new ways to employ his feelings as allies."

Yes, I understand your suggestion, but am unsure as to how to go about implementing it.

As a learning aid perhaps you could discuss (or comment on) the process steps that the I.V. tribe might take in order to get senders beyond the 'zero' point to the 'joy' point.

Any thoughts and/or comments would be much appreciated.

Here is an example of one way you might do it.




Sender: Displays some entry form.


Process Manager: "Good, do that some more."


Receivers: Provide encouragement.


Sender: Displays the form again and allows it to develop, with painful effort and grimacing.


PM: "Good job. I wonder if you are willing to do that again."


R's: Provide encouragement.


S: Displays the form again, with even more development and even more grimacing.


PM:  "I wonder if you are willing to enjoy the form."


S: "You have to be kidding.  I don't even like to do this.  It's painful."


PM: "If that means you are unwilling, then we are done for now."


S: "OK, OK, I know the drill.  I'm willing.  It's just hard to conceive of enjoying this."


PM: "You might consider bringing a smile into the form to demonstrate when you are enjoying it."


S: "OK, OK, OK, I'm ready."


R's: Provide encouragement.


PM: "Good. Get into it.  Notice you like it. Play with it. Do it different ways. Enjoy it."


S: Gets into the form, slowly at first, then plays with it and starts to finds it pleasant, fun and enjoyable.


R's: Provide encouragement.


PM: "Good job !  I wonder if you are willing to do that again."


S: "Yes. (Smiling) I really like it."


PM: "Go for it."


R's: Provide encouragement.


S: Releases tension and assumes a peaceful, content and joyous pose.  Gains numerous insights.


PM: "Good job.  Lets have a checkout ..."

Tue, 20 Jun 2006

The Associates Program


I wish to learn more about the Associate program.


How may I send my system to you, i.e. what programming language?


Also, you mention DK's  (do not knows) how would you monitor my account?


Does it have to be with a specific broker? Thanks.

See the link to TT Associates link, above for more information

Tue, 20 Jun 2006


Negative Feelings

I've read a few books recently that closely correlates Feelings with Needs, a negative feeling signaling that there is an unmet need.

I took a look at my snapshot from the angle of what needs or unmet needs does my snapshot fulfill. I got an Aha so powerful that I almost wet myself when I realized that one of my needs is completely at odds with something that I am doing Now. This will be the entry point to my next hotseat.

Possibly TTP may be best used focusing on raw feelings and introducing thought-based needs may compromise TTP's effectiveness. But you never know unless you experiment.

As long as you view a feeling as negative, you likely have it in a k-not and so you are likely to set up dramas around the feeling - that wind up intensifying the feeling - until you are willing to experience it. 


When you come to view the feeling joyously, as a positive ally on your emotional instrument panel, it can support you in fulfilling your needs.




The Drama Disappears


when both parties become willing

to enjoy their forms.


To see how this works,

envision the mother and son above

delivering their lines with joyous smiles.


Even better,

envision them delivering their lines

smiling, in sing-song,

while playing banjos.



Clip: http://www.geekculture.com/


Tue, 20 Jun 2006


Snapshot Process

Hi Ed,

I really would appreciate the structure and Snapshot process please, as I would like to set up a Tribe out here in [Country].

In [Country] there are still way to many Fundamentalist traders influencing people via the press, so it would be nice to make some money off them too and beat them at a game they think they have perfected.

Many thanks

I am currently consolidating my researches into the Snapshot Process into a chapter for my new book.  For now, you can observe the evolution of the process by reading FAQ items.

Tue, 20 Jun 2006


The Joy Point

Hi Ed,

According to the Glossary page, Zero Point is a position of peacefulness and bliss.

In the FAQ on 6/19 (Irritation & Maybe More), you mention something about the Joy Point (which is beyond the Zero Point). You say the Joy Point is where the sender feels peaceful and joyous.

Can you please elaborate more on Zero Point and Joy Point? They sound awfully similar to me.


The Zero Point associates with willingness to experience a form. The Joy Point associates with willingness to enjoy a form.



Bringing Joy to the Form


A South Korea fan waits in the stands before South Korea's Group G World Cup 2006 soccer match against Togo in Frankfurt June 13, 2006. South Korea wins.


Clip and Information: REUTERS

Tue, 20 Jun 2006


Judging Feelings



As I listen to the radio, commentator talks with vengeance about a news story





Expert says attack ‘pleasurable‘
13 June, 2006

COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. - The parents of a severely disabled woman suing a Colorado Springs school district over a sexual assault at a high school said the district has refused to mediate a civil lawsuit as one of its experts called the attack "pleasurable" for the woman ...


"A professional hired by the district said the assault was pleasurable, not traumatic," said Starr. "He said it ignited her female desires."  ...

"She used to be passive and affectionate, now she‘s aggressive, especially toward males," said McArthur. "She could end up hurting someone, maybe a little boy."

Source:  http://www.heraldnewsdaily.com/





The announcer is strongly judgmental about feelings. He calls some feelings evil and some pure. The story seems to be extremely personal for him as his daughter is in some way disadvantaged as well as the victim. He describes his first feeling when he reads the story, as somebody "punched him in middle of the chest".


I wonder what would Ed say about a story like this in a world where everybody gets what they want.




Can you also share with us your "Trading Tribe radio" snapshot progress?

I see the expert concluding the her feelings are "pleasurable" and "igniting her desires."


I see Person #2 concluding she is now "aggressive" and predicting she might "hurt someone."


I see the announcer reporting his own feelings as a "punch in the chest."


Likely the first two reports are inaccurate and reflect agendas of the reporters.


The announcer's report is likely accurate and might indicate he has a form in his chest area.




The radio show I envision has the expert, Person #2, the announcer, the "victim" and the "perpetrator" all in a group along with with some expert receivers and a skillful PM, all supporting each other in getting to the Joy Point.


Within a supporting Tribe, these people can help each other identify and untie the k-nots that support this situation in which they all play supporting roles in each others' dramas.




Putting all the Drama Participants


in a Tribe large enough to contain them


is one way to untie the k-nots

that all intertwine.


The alternative combinations or

the legal system, the penal system

and conventional talk radio


all seem to tie the k-nots tighter.



Clip: http://www.theexplorationplace.com/


Tue, 20 Jun 2006


Liking It (Me) Too Much

I hope you are doing well. I have let some time pass since last sharing my experiences on my quest to become successful trader.

My Trading Tribe is no more. One member is extremely discouraged with his progress and emails you a couple of times, but does not like your responses. The other two members form a group with other traders and quit communicating. I see this as a part of the process. Some trades are winners, some are not. So, I am now sending signals into the under-Fred network for new members.

I am currently in the process of developing my trading plan while I continue to enjoy my newborn son. It is a real pleasure to watch him grow and change on a daily basis.


I find that since my last Tribe meeting, dramas between my wife and I tend to surface. We find that sometimes we are able to send and receive each other, and sometimes not.

At my last Tribe meeting, I created my first snapshot (attached). It is of me with my family, my investors and taking the first trade of my newly formed Commodity pool. I continue to work on it on a daily basis and enjoy the process.


I am introducing my business to some friends out of town. They like it. They like it too much. As I drive back, I am doubtful, scared. I do not want to disappoint them. I try to distract myself and not pay attention to my feelings when I realize what I am doing. After I recognize this, I choose to experience the feelings to see what it is I still need to do.

I enjoy the process of getting closer to my snapshot every day.

You might consider taking your feelings of other people liking you, disliking you and liking you too much to the hot seat.


The members of a couple typically strengthen the relationship by receiving each other, weaken it by trying to process each other.




Liking it Too Much


is sometimes just right.



Clip: http://www.horizoncon.com/


Tue, 20 Jun 2006


Trading Tribe Associates Program


I am interested in learning more about the TT Associates program described in FAQ.


Could you please email an example of what you are doing and what information I would have to provide?

For more information, as it develops, watch the link to TT Associates & Chart Server, above.

Tue, 20 Jun 2006


re: Money & Love

Thank you for sharing your process.
You seem to have the relationship you have.
Trying to do TTP without a Tribe is like trying to clap with one hand.

Yes. I feel like removing my tribe from the directory listing.


I guess I am trying to fish where the fish are not.

I wish to start my own "family" tribe instead. My friend tells me that I must be patient for things happen spontaneously ... as they did for her ...


Tue, 20 Jun 2006


The Joy of Stopping

Hi Ed,

At our most recent tribe meeting we begin with the snapshot process.

One particular member presents the same snapshot that he presented at a previous meeting and has once again chosen not to incorporate any of the critical feedback as given in that previous meeting (and meetings prior to that)

Once again his snapshot rambles on & goes off on different tangents and is very very vague.

He is told that his snapshot is hard to understand, is vague and that it lacks emotion or ‘sizzle’ if you will.

I tell him I don’t ‘get it’.

Normally this individual is very mild mannered, softly spoken and polite (more on that below). In short, a nice guy.

However the comments regarding a vague snapshot seem to ‘push his buttons’.

He feels that these kind of comments are very rude and unfair and he seems somewhat upset.

“Don’t you know how long it took me to prepare this snapshot?”

“I’m sick of rude people always putting me down for everything I do”

He further says, “I’m putting in all this effort and no-one appreciates it, it’s like someone is treating my work as useless, just like they would butt out a useless cigarette”

He proceeds to do the motion of dropping a cigarette on the floor and grinding into the ground with his foot as if to butt it out.

I tell him that I hear what he is saying but that does not change the fact that the snapshot is vague.

He doesn’t like this at all.

I suggest (jokingly) that I might put his snapshot on the ground and butt a cigarette on it. “How would you feel about that?”

Now he is really, really upset.

His hackles are up.



OK. straight to the hotseat as this guy is really ‘hot’.

He protests that we haven’t finished the snapshot process and haven’t even done a check-out or check-in or even any drumming.

No matter, we decide to improvise . . . straight to the hotseat and I act as the receiver/PM

On the hotseat he continues with the motion of grinding his foot onto an imaginary cigarette as if to butt it out. He says the word “No”

OK. do more of that and say that word some more.

“No, no, no, No, NO, NO!!!”

I ask him to crank it up and say it louder. He has some trouble with this as he believes it is not polite to start yelling. He has a judgment about being impolite.

O.k. show the form of not wanting to yell the word “No” and risking being impolite. A vigorous form appears which involves arms & shoulders moving as well as side to side head movements. The form then morphs into one that involves shaking, jittering / shivering & saying the word “Brrrrr”, “Brrrrr”

It looks more like a cold seat than a hot seat.

This goes on for some time.

He says he’s sick of people always putting his efforts down and not appreciating what he does. He further says that every time he tries to do something he always goes the ‘wrong way’ and makes the wrong choice. He feels that people think his efforts are as useless as “a cigarette being butted out”

He continues with the form and again it goes on & on. I ask if he is able to enjoy this form. He says he does, but is not really convinced.

He gets tired from doing the form and slows it down and then stops.

I again ask if he enjoys this & if so to do it again.


He says he does enjoy it but does not want to do it anymore.


He feels as though he is at some kind of precipice and if he went further he doesn’t know what might happen. He chooses not to proceed further. I poke & prod a bit, but he is adamant that he has had enough for now. He again says that he enjoyed it.

I again jokingly say “Would you mind if I butted a cigarette on your snapshot?”. He smiles but says words to effect of “Don’t you dare.”



We checkout.

In my checkout statement, I agree that it was a good effort as previous hot seats are nowhere near as intense as this one. However, I also feel it is a bit of a cop-out in that he had the opportunity to really go for it but chose not to.

(However, now that I write this, I think back to some of my hot seats where I had the opportunity to go for it but chose not to. I appreciate that this ‘stuff’ can be difficult at times even though it may not look that way to the outside observer.)

He says that this was a good experience as far as it went and he does feel good that at least he was able to go a lot further in this hotseat that in all other previous hot seats. He says that he still has work to do on this issue and will do this work at another time. He further says that when he reached the ‘egde’ he had a overwhelming impulse to stop & go no further.

Hmmmm . . . . .is there something over that edge?

Thank you for your vivid reporting.


In the Incline Village Tribe I generally ask the snapshot presenters to "log your feelings" for the Tribe meeting, later on.


This is to keep the snapshot process on track - without interruption. 


Your method of integrating snapshot and TTP for each person might work very well. I may experiment with it.  TTP is empirical.  We extend the art and science by intuition and such experimentation as you are doing.


At some point the sender eventually gets tired and / or unwilling.  When the sender says he is no longer willing to process, we simply stop.


If you have feelings about the sender stopping, it might be your own issue.






is sometimes the best move.


Clip: http://www.gcse.com/fm/images/ducklings.jpg

Mon, 19 Jun 2006


Irritation & Maybe More

I take the hotseat at our recent tribe meeting.

My issue is what’s standing between me and my snapshot. I begin by talking and then I become aware of the receiver clapping his hands in a slow monotonous highly annoying manner. I think to myself that we’re not at a soccer match here, this is a tribe meeting. I ask him to stop. He continues. Does he not hear me?

I find it EXTREMELY annoying and ask him to STOP once more. Again he continues.

I then become aware that I’m getting pissed off so I go with that feeling. I get into a form and I find myself yelling “STOP” and “Leave me alone”.

I am asked to do more of that and to yell louder.

I cover myself up with hands and arms over my head as if to hide myself and I am now on the floor on my elbows and knees. I keep saying STOP, except this time I apply liberal use of the “F” word together with “stop” and “leave me alone”

This is a form that I am very familiar with as I have done this on quite a few separate occasions. It’s always the same thing.

Amazingly (to me) the clapping continues, why won’t he stop?

I feel the urge to scream, which I am able do. I then start to punch the air, whilst still on the floor on my knees and I am encouraged to do more of that and to really crank it up. I feel as though I’m going rounds with Tyson. Punches high & low, jabs, uppercuts, I keep going and going until I get to a point of maximum intensity.

“FREEZE” says the receiver.

I do this and feel the feelings in my body whilst holding my breath. I am able to explore the feelings and ‘surf’ with these feeling and then I can hold the freeze no longer. I gulp in some air. I feel really tired from all that punching. My shoulders are fatigued.

I do the whole thing all over again, except this time standing up on both feet and end with another ‘freeze’

I remember that as I punch, I become aware of being back at school and I’m knocking the absolute stuffing out of this guy’s head. I’m beating him to a pulp and it feels good. I remember being teased at this school for being of Non-Anglo persuasion and this guy, I’m beating seems to symbolize the entire teasing, bullying & taunting business.

I simply want them to stop it, but they never do. It feels good to be able to apply my fists to this guys face. Take that you F---- Mother F----!!!!

I am able to express a lot of anger and it feels ok to do so.

I am able to do the form again and feel ok about it.

However having said that, I still feel as though there’s ‘something’ still missing. Could I have done more? Could I have gone further? If so in what direction? I don’t really feel like I’m in a nirvana like bliss state, instead I feel tired & sleepy.

Does this mean I have more to do? Am I expecting too much? Aren't all hot seats meant to end in a bliss like state?

Questions. Questions.

As my hotseat is the last one, we check out and the meeting comes to a close.

I feel really tired & dreamy. I don’t go home straight away but instead just lay in my car with the seat reclined back whilst being with the feeling.

I become aware that I want people to ‘like me’ and that sometimes I do things purely and simply so that others may think well of me. I also become aware that this is related to the schoolyard teasing incidents.

I further become aware that even in trading, one reason for wanting to make lots of money is so that people might think “Wow, he’s really good. What a great guy”. It would appear that I want the acceptance of others and what better way to do so than to be successful.

I have always said that my primary reason for trading is to make money. (obviously!!)

I now wonder if I may have another reason.

I must admit that this is an issue that I have always known about, but this Hotseat has made me even more aware of it.

I definitely feel as though I don’t need to try and please people anymore.

I suppose that like everyone, I want the approval & validation of others but if I don’t get it then perhaps its not that big a deal.

It will be interesting (for me) to see how it all pans out now that I’m more fully aware of one of my tendencies.

Thank you for sharing your process - and for your description of how your Tribe works the process.


Your clapping-receiver seems to have a good sense of how to keep you in process without resorting to talking - as talking can easily pull you out of process.


You might consider taking your senders past the Zero Point (point of acceptance), all the way to the Joy Point.


At the Joy Point, the sender feels peaceful and also joyous about his insights and about new ways to employ his feelings as allies.


You might also consider taking your feelings about "there must be something more - maybe I can do more" to the Hot Seat.




The Feeling of Wanting More


rarely goes away away

by getting more.



Clip: http://i12.photobucket.com/


Sun, 18 Jun 2006


He's  64

Hello Ed,

Today Paul McCartney turns 64.


I wonder, is it an accident that right before that birthday, he splits with his wife, fulfilling the anxious prophecy of his famous song?


And, If he had been able to take his feelings about being needed and cared for to the hotseat, perhaps he would be in a loving relationship today.

Thanks, as always, for your work!

When I get older losing my hair,
Many years from now.
Will you still be sending me a valentine
Birthday greetings bottle of wine.

If I'd been out till quarter to three
Would you lock the door,
Will you still need me, will you still feed me,
When I'm sixty-four.

You'll be older too,
And if you say the word,
I could stay with you.

I could be handy, mending a fuse
When your lights have gone.
You can knit a sweater by the fireside
Sunday mornings go for a ride,

Doing the garden, digging the weeds,
Who could ask for more.
Will you still need me, will you still feed me,
When I'm sixty-four.

Every summer we can rent a cottage,
In the Isle of Wight, if it's not too dear
We shall scrimp and save
Grandchildren on your knee
Vera, Chuck & Dave

Send me a postcard, drop me a line,
Stating point of view
Indicate precisely what you mean to say
Yours sincerely, wasting away

Give me your answer, fill in a form
Mine for evermore
Will you still need me,

will you still feed me,
When I'm sixty-four.


- Beatles

Midi File: http://www.links2love.com/


Hmmm ... Very interesting co-incidence.  In order to divorce just before 64, you have to marry years in advance, to someone who has a good chance of going off on time.




Heather, in Form




Adopting a Mine Field




When I'm 64


In marriage,

as in relationships in general,

we support each other

in experiencing our forms,


sometimes as allies,

as in Tribe Meetings


other times as adversaries.













Sun, 18 Jun 2006


Santa Fe, New Mexico Trading Tribe

Hello Ed,


Here is my TID (Tribe Identification Document) for Santa Fe.







Santa Fe


New Mexico


Sun, 18 Jun 2006


Juicing-Up a Snapshot

Hello Ed,

I realize that I am not motivated by my snapshot.


I include no emotional content in that snapshot, just a dollar amount.


I realize that I am more likely to realize my snapshot when I include emotional content in it (what feelings I have).





Even Thinking


can contain emotional juice



Clip: http://www.brain-juice.com/main.html

Sat, 17 Jun 2006


Snapshot Progress


I continue to support your snapshots.

I have now lost more than 45 pounds on my diet and my body is in better shape and my blood pressure is under control. Lately I have been having some trouble sleeping.

My Coffee Break snapshot is not progressing as fast as I would like. I experience frustration and insecurities around my system with high daily volatility and big up and down months and not much real progress over the last year and a half trading.

I made a lot of money in the metals, but my system gave too much back before exit. [My job] has been consuming a lot of my energy and I am not able to research ways to reduce the volatility, capture more of the big moves, or better manage the risk like I would like to do.


The trade tracking, account reconciliation, and back office accounting work is taking a lot of time the way I have it set up. Do you know any good trade tracking and accounting software?

Thank you for sharing your process.


You might consider taking any feelings you have about frustration and insecurity to the hot seat.






can indicate an opportunity

to re-assess risk control.


Clip: http://www.widereach.net/


Fri, 16 Jun 2006


Money & Love

Hi Ed,


How are you doing? It's been a long time since I last reported to FAQ. I have not had enough candidates to set up my own tribe.


I take the opportunity to do some work with an intimate, female friend, sometimes. She's naturally very receptive and supportive. However I notice how she doesn't feel at ease when I tinker with deep buried, "obscure" feelings. I have been working on relationship issues with her.

In fact, we have a popular saying here that goes like this: "happy in money, sad in love". And it's how I feel about myself.


I feel as if professional opportunities abound for me. Also, my system is completed and running since January 1st, 2005.


Yet I don't have the love and quality relationship I have always wished for and my heart is in a mess.


I don't relate well with most girls ... except with this special friend. I don't like their demands and superficial values ... I find most of them to be morons ... and I despise them.


Perhaps you're just going to tell me I am loser and I am getting what I want. Whatever.

Thank you for sharing your process.


You seem to have the relationship you have.




Trying to do TTP without a Tribe


is like trying to clap

with one hand.



Clip: http://www.tif.ca/misc/misc12.html

Fri, 16 Jun 2006


Re: June 16th - Quality Mom Time

Ed says: Mom: a primary support system for children of all ages.

It seems the support works both ways.


At least that what my mom tells me these days.

Thank you for noticing the whole system.



Mom and Son


Supporting each other, naturally.



Clip: http://www.callathump.com/archives/2005/06/

Fri, 16 Jun 2006


Barcelona, Spain Tribe

Thanks a lot Ed for your web.

FAQ is my favorite read.










Fri, 16 Jun 2006


SVO-P error on June 14

Hi Ed,

In your 6/14 FAQ - Judgment response you twice say, "If people were willing ..." This doesn't seem to align with SVO-P.


Thank you for the catch.  The item stands, now, in SVO-p.

Thu, 15 Jun 2006


Trading Psychology:

A Rose By Any Other Name?

I thought you might find this of interest - people prefer stocks with symbols they can pronounce.

Clip: http://www.princeton.edu/main/


Hmmm ... Investing for the Symbol-Minded.




The "Cymbals-Sound-Good" System


Clip: http://www.alixolson.com/images/


Wed, 14 Jun 2006


Quality Mom Time


on May 15th I create a snapshot titled "Receiving My Mom". I make a commitment to calling her at least once per week (we live on different continents) and to noticing her feelings and my feelings.


Since then our relationship improves dramatically.

 We talk longer on the phone (I am estimating that our average conversation jumps from less than 5 minutes to close to 15 minutes, I don't have measurable proof though.)


I notice her feelings and tell her that I validate her feelings. I appreciate and respect her more. Instead of getting fired up about her drama, I just notice her feelings. We also e-mail a lot more and write more meaningful stuff in our e-mails.


I feel I realized my snapshot and anticipate to further receive my mom.

Thank you ... I appreciate your support.

Thank you for sharing your process.




Mom:  A Primary Support System


for children of all ages.


Clip: http://www.santour.ru/ch/images/


Wed, 14 Jun 2006



A) Ed says, "To determine if this is a good or bad result, you have to apply your own judgment." (FAQ 6/7/06: Ill Eagle)

B) Ed says, "TTP suspends belief in the JCT trilogy: judgment, causality and time." (FAQ 6/24/04)

Since A is regarding societal knots, do A and B together imply that we simply receive how the society behaves, without judgment, and perhaps even encourage the society to "crank it up"?




America is currently at war with a feeling: namely, terror.  Americans are growing increasingly unwilling to feel even a little bit of it.  See Societal Knots, below.


People who are willing to experience terror typically notice how terrifying the actions of our leaders (both parties) are becoming.


Since terror is in a knot, we do not like to feel it; the under-Fred Network keeps setting up terrifying dramas around it.


Our national debt is moving toward repudiation; our personal freedoms are eroding; we have substantial and unapologetic waste in government programs. 




People Who Are Willing to Experience

fear, sadness and disgust,


also seem to get the urge

to clean house.


Clip: http://www.atwillett.com/


Wed, 14 Jun 2006


Societal Knots

Dear Ed,

Thanks for a detailed view on societal knots (FAQ 6/7/06, Ill Eagle In Migration)

It gets me to wonder about the characteristics of societal knots:

A societal knot, say fear, comes upon when we collectively as a society refuses to experience feeling fearful, correct?

How is it formed? A group of people together form a society. If enough of these people holds a knot in a fear, then we say that there is a societal knot in fear, correct?

Knots grow with the size of society? The best a person can do is to not add onto existing knots in the society, but he cannot produce "negative" knots to cancel what others have. Since each person's knots cannot be "negative", the more people there are, the bigger the knots as well.

Size doesn't seem to be the only factor. In some countries (esp. those in war), or at some time (esp. right after some bombing or attacks), the knot tends to be stronger.

What can a person do if he intends to help untying societal knots?

To untie a knot, fully experiencing the feeling without judgment. To untie a societal knot, the society as a whole needs to fully experience the feeling without judgment, correct? If that's the case, then no person (or even no society) can untie societal knots himself, because it is just like DIM?

Are politicians the manipulators? They sense a society is unwilling to experience fear, and so they advocate to set up laws that seem to prevent people from feeling fearful (more troops, more searches, more rules, more authority to persecute, etc.).

It seems interesting to me that this form of manipulation works much better within the politician's own society than if he tries to manipulate other society's knots, although there are notable exceptions (Bin Laden on the US?).

Thanks for the thought-provoking response on the FAQ.

Thank you for thinking about this issue.


When people have k-nots in common, sycophants can manipulate the whole group by promising relief from the feeling and/or threatening to make them feel it.


When people are willing to experience their feelings, and a sycophant tries to ply his trade, people feel the manipulation and simply walk away.


So, in order to control a society, manipulators know the importance of keeping their subjects in k-nots.


One way to do this is to make key feelings unacceptable and or illegal.


You might like to notice that America is currently officially at war with a feeling: namely, terror.


This is consistent with America entraining all kinds of drama about terror. 


We go to great lengths to avoid the feeling of terror - while we simultaneously fear a wide range of hypothetical crises: bird flu, repeating hurricanes, global warming, and people sneaking nail clippers onto airplanes.


Our societal k-nots make us easy targets for manipulators.




It's not the War on Terrorists (people)


and it's not the War on Terrorism (a tactic).


Its the War on Terror (a feeling).



Clip(pers) http://www.cat-world.com.au/


Wed, 14 Jun 2006


Contemplating New Tribe

Hello Ed,

Approximately one month after a Trading Tribe meeting, I leave Chicago and drive through the southwest and up the coast of California.


I absolutely love the freedom and enjoyment, as well as the aloneness and uncertainty I experience on that 5 week long road trip.


I am now in [City]. I am here because out of all of the places I visit on my road trip, I feel the best here.


I am trading from home, and many feelings come up throughout the days which I know may be integrated more successfully when I am in a group like the trading tribe.

I intend to start a trading tribe here. I intend to advertise the tribe to traders and non-traders.

Thank you for sharing your process.

Wed, 14 Jun 2006


Numerical Values in Snapshots

Hi Ed,

In the 6/11 FAQ about snapshots, you suggest that we do so without specific numerical values. I think I recall one of your interviews where you also suggested not to attach to a specific dollar value (for profits) but instead be more process-oriented.

I am somewhat confused about this and the system development that we had in the Workshop back in 2004. I recall that when developing a trading system, you drill into the specifics so that there is no wiggle room whatsoever.


Everything is absolutely clear so that even a machine can understand. You specify a bliss function to optimize. You use specific numbers to measure it. Later on in the Breathwork you also apply the same concept to our commitment, demanding us to come up with something that we can unambiguously measure.

So then in developing a personal system (to realize our dreams), I am under the impression that clarity is also important and necessary.


In this case of a race, a sub 5-minute mile run is clear and no wiggle room - either he makes it or he doesn't. On the other hand, "among the leaders" has a lot of wiggle room so it is difficult to determine whether he really accomplishes what he sets out to do.

Can you please elaborate more on numerical values and precise measurement? Is it that snapshots can be (and perhaps even preferably) very vague, while the commitments that you take to realize the snapshots needs to be absolutely clear?


To systematize your trading, you can model it as a definite set of rules.  The exercise of registering it as a computer program, back-testing it and optimizing it helps remove logical ambiguity, so you wind up with a consistent program.


The bliss optimization process does not typically extend to include your feelings.


To systematize your snapshot, you can model it as a definite set of feelings.  The exercise of registering it as a snapshot, sharing the feelings with Tribe members and focusing your feelings helps remove emotional ambiguity, so you wind up with a consistent snapshot.


The feeling focus process does not typically extend to include logic, and measurements.


To see this, think of something that is very effective in motivating you from the gut.  Notice,  the relative importance of the images and of the numbers.




What Moves You In Your Gut

About This Photo


likely has very little to do

with the numbers on her watch.


Clip: http://www.photo.net/philg/digiphotos/


Wed, 14 Jun 2006


Frustration About Trading

Hi Mr. Seykota,

I hope you are well. I was reading a recent FAQ on Mon, 6/12/06 feeling support article. I don't have 70% draw down but some how I always break even with a bang at the end to break all kind of rules and end up loosing. I been trading myself for a 3 years and I realize that it is a pattern that I have.


While I am starting at the losses I am extremely emotional and feeling like a total looser because I spend all those hours and building acct equity and blow it all up. On 6/12/06 FAQ you responded: "You might consider taking sadness ( a feeling that associates with loss) to Tribe as an entry point until you can enjoy it and experience its positive intention. Otherwise Fred might keep engineering situations in which you lose money, support, even your car keys."


My conscious mind understands this very much however I feel drama occurs when you got K-NOT. My loosing pattern are as follows: Recent example. I go long on USD 112. I'm all psyched up because it moves in my favor. I feel oh its going to be rally for couple of days. Then I sell for quick profit telling myself I'm looking to get back in. Soon USD goes higher then I end up missing some pips and start looking at indicators, I get frustrated and end up buying at the top on short term chart then I get frustrated more when it went down.


I take a loss then I go long again made some money back then I stop saying I'm going crazy lets be patient. Then I see the dollar goes up and keep rallying then I am extremely frustrated and basically explode and do the worst thing possible.


Last bang to end up totally like an looser. I notice I keep saying " Why Me?" on many occasions. Its a pattern that I have been associated with for a while. If you can advise me on what I should feel on the hot seat I appreciate it.

Some positive changes are happening as well. We have opened up IB Service and have our first customer. I have never had problem attracting customers or partners. I have started to learn about programming and working on software to automation orders so I don't have to do it manually. I have confidence on the system. However above Knot is going to be problem in the future.

Since the my trip to IV village visitation I have not attended any tribe meeting for some reason. I wanted to focus on my own tribe and my snapshot. [Other CIty] tribe members are probably mad because I stop attending their tribe. After the visitation the view toward TTP changes and I didn't want to do it any other way.


I try to share what I learn in IVTT via email. May be I'm the youngest. So I figure I focus on my own tribe. I wonder if this whole action is due to my K-not and related to trading behavior. So due to this I got no choice but to focus on my own Tribe. I got one guy committed other than myself, one semi-inquiry as well as my partner who are keep saying he is interested.


Should I just have TTP meeting or qualify their willingness more. I would appreciate your advice. In addition I know my intention is to develop my own TT. I still like to become IV village TT regular member for what ever time frame required for contribution. But I know I have to get my life straight a bit more consistent with my snapshot. I thank you for everything. Now I got to go back and cut my losses.

Thank you for sharing your process.


You might consider taking your feeling of frustration to the Hot Seat.  While you are there you might try expanding on forms that goes with "Why me?" and asking people what you should do.




In Tribe, You Can Take Frustration

to the Joy Point


as an alternative,

you can allow Fred to set up situations

so you can experience frustration


in your trading

and in your life in general.



Clip: http://www.ediets.com.pt/news/article.cfm?code=24108&article_id=60

Mon, 12 Jun 2006 

Proof Reader

I notice your Wed, 19 Nov 2003 FAQ shows the name & e-mail address.

Thank you for the catch.  I wonder if you might like a job proofreading my new book.

Mon, 12 Jun 2006  


Hanging on!
I think I have issues with hanging on.

For me, sometimes I just leave my stop loss in and turn off my computer (quotes) because I can’t handle the wiggles. I wonder if this is a drama where I’m not allowing myself to experience the feelings of wiggles.

Your thoughts are appreciated.

You might consider noticing what's between you and re-writing your last line in SVO-p, as:


I appreciate your thoughts.


Yours is passive and in past tense.  SVO-p is active and in the now.




Hanging On to the Past


distracts you from

experiencing the present.



Clip: http://justinsomnia.org/gallery/


Mon, 12 Jun 2006 

Adjusting the Sails

I am learning what (k)nots are - that is major for me. It explains a heck of a lot to me and this information is being used as we speak - in the now. YES!


I like the Ward quote:

The pessimist complains about the wind.
The Optimist expects a change.
The Realist adjusts the sails.


I have always been a combo realist & optimist.


I adjust the sails and expect a change.


Sometimes, however, you have to remove the mast!




Failure to Control Risk


can result in a




Clip: http://www.sptimes.com/News/


Mon, 12 Jun 2006


Report on my experiences
Dear Chief Ed,

I do not feel my feelings deeply during hotseat. I feel disappointment, frustration, and anger.  I explain TTP to my wife and 13 year old son. I receive my son yesterday for anger and frustration. He feels good.

My rebellious 18 year old son whines about his friend making him feel angry, frustrated, and unfair. I reply, "Why are you telling me this?" (I am feeling resentment).  My 18 year old protests saying, "I thought you are the one I can turn to tell my problems". I am humbled and touched (I don't recall his ever saying this to me).

I start to try to make him feel (our drama) better then I switch to TTP. His face seems relaxed and happy. I love him.

My feelings seem stronger when I am by myself. I notice my feelings from the drama in my life and feel them whenever I can. I feel regret, sadness, hopelessness before I sleep. I dream I need to take a shower before some exciting event. I wake up and force myself to take a shower and then take on the day. I feel refreshed.

Thank you for sharing your process.


You might consider taking your feelings about not wanting to experience your feelings on the hotseat - to the hotseat.





has a positive intention


Clip: http://www.knights-templar.com/images/


Mon, 12 Jun 2006

Mr Seykota

At the bottom if this page

FAQ/2006_Jun/01/index.htm  you thank a contributor for his encouragement.

I realize that I only use FAQ when I feel I need help, I suspect many other observers are the same.

Following a system is something that I know is needed from reading FAQ, TSP and other www.seykota.com   content but only resolve to do after I read a blunt reply to my question of the 16th February 2006 ‘Trading Question’. I read what I already know but am slow to acknowledge, I cry. The truth hurts: I don’t follow a system, and I don’t make money. Trading improves and my financial situation eases through following a system.

Below is a chart of my trading progress since I follow the system. It is only five weeks old but every trend starts somewhere. This data barely registers on my previously submitted chart but as and when its impact can be more clearly seen on a small picture I’ll submit a full version of how system trading impacts my rolling results of six years of trading.

Please accept this positive chart as a thank you for your work on TTP and trend trading. I intend to give you encouragement from my progress as a result of your work. I learn about optimization and grapple with programming and my relationships improve as the stress discretional trading can bring dissipates. I cancel my internet access at home so I no longer carry overnight positions in line with my rules.

Your intention is to help fellow traders and the results with me are a proof that intention = results.

Thank you.



Thank you for sharing your process.


Following a conscious plan tends to produce conscious results; the alternative is to allow Fred to set the agenda.




Fred's Plan is to Assist You in Experiencing


any feelings you have in k-nots



Clip: http://www.despair.com/planning.html

Mon, 12 Jun 2006


Feeling support
Hi Ed,

I am currently in a 70% drawdown for my fund. I feel sick, and I have a sore throat. In the last five months, I continuously try different things to improve my system performance, and I also keep jumping my system signals.  If I stay and follow every signal with my original system since January, I would have been up 2% for the year with a 40% peak-to-trough drawdown. I get into the hot seat several times before about jumping my system; although I have intense sessions and I seem to "resolve" these issues, my system-jumping issue keeps reappearing. The tribe asks me about the 30% "subtracted value" with my mechanical system, and I have a hard time remembering what trades and parts of my system I am jumping. Maybe I do not want to remember. One tribe member mentions that if something is painful, you don't want to remember it. He suggests that every time I do a trade, I write what exactly the system says to do and write down what I am doing and feeling at that moment. For some reason, my immediate reactive thought is, "I don't want to see where I am jumping my system."

I get into the hot seat. I go through numerous feelings: grabbing my hair, squeezing, pulling it out. pushing my hands up the side of my head, "forking" my ear lobes with my hands, then pushing my hands to the top of my head, grabbing and pulling my hair.grabbing my hair, squeezing my head with my forearms, and touching my elbows at the same time, shrieking and screaming with limited breathing in and out, and coughing and wretching. pressing my biceps with my fingers, and "ow!" twisting my jaw, stretching my legs out, curling my feet. slapping my forehead with my right hand. flapping my index finger up and down my lips, humming to make that "bubbling sound", and saying "i'm a f---ing idiot."

At the end of experiencing each feeling fully, I feel like nothing is coming out. I am doing nothing, leading the tribe in circles, and the receivers do not get hooked.

I then feel a sharp pain in my stomach area, and a dull stone-like pain right above my crotch area. This is the same feeling I get the morning I have a 70% drawdown. I start pressing the stone-like object and it f----ing hurts like s---. I keep saying "ow!" and the receivers keep encouraging me. I press my stomach, and then I go right back to the stone. I press it now with fingertips from both of my hands. Now, it really f---ing hurts like s---. I keep doing it, the pain is still there, and I don't why if f---ing hurts so much. I start to remember trades where I jump my system: OJ, Sugar, the DAX.

One receiver asks something like, "What does it feel like to experience a 70%+ drawdown?" I don't answer him, and I don't locate the feeling. I try to remember what I am doing that morning I have the deep drawdown. I remember getting up from my chair after seeing the drawdown, and I walk around my living room, and I feel like a zombie. I get up out of the hot seat and just stand there and I motion the tribe to wait. I feel like I am standing/floating, and I don't remember breathing. I am wearing MBT shoes, and I have a hard time keeping my balance. I feel like I'm slightly leaning off-center, so one of the receivers stands in back of me in case I fall over. I feel like leaning to my left, and I lean and lean and lean, until I can't lean any further. While leaning, I start rotating the trunk of my body clockwise, and I slowly turn and turn and turn, until I can see the back wall. The whole time, I am trying to keep my balance and I keep leaning and turning as far back as I can go without falling down. I can barely breathe because I am contorting my body to an extreme but I don't want to fall.

Two tribe members are standing behind me, and one of them says, "Go for it and fall over anytime - we got you!" I keep leaning and contorting and slowly fall even more, but I want to be right in between just about to fall over and falling over. I finally lean all the way back slowly, and both receivers catch me. I feel surprised, and I don't recognize this feeling of being supported. They slowly push me up, and I feel my forehead and jaw clenching until I am standing up really straight. I now stand up extremely erect and I easily balance as I look up at the ceiling lights. I suddenly feel overwhelmed and a very tiny bit of cool electric humming throughout my whole body, my heart starts to hurt and I start crying and crying, and I can't stop. This is the first time in my life that I feel this feeling, and I don't know what to think. It's a WONDERFUL feeling~

I try to say something, and every time I try, I start crying again. The receivers keep supporting me in going all the way to the end, and I keep crying. I love the feeling of being supported, lifted back up, and standing up straight, but I can't say it because my mouth keeps vibrating with the feelings I feel. I tell the tribe that my f---ing family has never supported me, and I pound my fists and keep saying that my f---ing family has never supported me. I get really angry, and then I start saying, "What about me? What about me?" I start pounding my fists and screaming, "What about me?" I keep screaming and pounding, and I start crying again. It really hurts.

I want feel that wonderful feeling again. I stand up again, and I feel like leaning to my right instead, and I lean and lean and lean, I start rotating the trunk of my body counter-clockwise, and I slowly turn and turn and turn, until I can see the back wall again. I keep my balance and I keep leaning and turning as far back as I can go without falling down. The same two tribe members again say, "Go for it and fall over anytime - we got you!" I keep leaning and contorting and slowly fall even more, but I want to be right in between just about to fall over and falling over. I finally lean all the way back slowly, and both receivers catch me. This time I stay in that position, and it feels really great to be supported like that. I don't want to move, and I want to stay in that supported position and really enjoy it for a while. I finally want to get up, they slowly push me up, and I now stand up straight. I love that feeling~

One of the tribe members points out that I cough up blood while I am retching early on in the hot seat.

On checkout, we talk about several things:

How I can now feel support without blowing up my fund.  What is the bet size I need to mitigate to NOT blow up now. See a doctor immediately about the stone above my crotch area and the blood.
Writing to FAQ.

I see a doctor the next day, and she recommends chest x-rays and a blood test immediately, as well as antibiotics and other medicines for my cold. The x-rays are negative, and I wait for the blood test and I follow-up this week about the stone-like pain. I cover my heavy short position in cocoa, and start to lighten up on other positions. I define my system now, reduce bet size to not blow-up, and I do not put on trades until I am clear on system signals and executing those signals. I am nervous because I don't know what will happen in the markets and I don't know what will happen when I put on my next trade.

I thank my tribe for helping me experience a feeling and level of support that I never feel before.

Thank you for sharing your process.


You might consider taking sadness (a feeling that associates with loss) to Tribe as an entry point until you can enjoy it and experience its positive intention.


Otherwise, Fred might keep engineering situations in which you lose money, support, even your car keys.


If you have a working system, you might investigate the Associate Program at Charts, above, for support in sticking to it.



Your Relationship with Sadness


might determine whether

you are wheeling the money home


or away from home.


Clip: http://www.eborg3.com/Graphics/Bible/


Sun, 11 Jun 2006 

Snapshot update

Dear Ed,

This email serves as an update to my "Break 5-minutes in the 1-mile race in Santa Barbara June 11th" snapshot.

I finished the race in 5:38 today and did not reach my goal. Overall I was both humbled and inspired.

I intend to return to Santa Barbara next June to complete my snapshot, and will follow up with FAQ to report my results. Thank you to the members of the IVTT for your support.

Thank you for sharing your process.


You might consider re-creating your snapshot so it carries the feeling of accomplishment without specific numerical values.


In this way, you can accomplish "crossing the finish line"  or "being among the leaders" or even "being the winner."




A Snapshot Captures a Moment of Now


in which time,

and other numerical measurements

that associate with goals,


all disappear.


Clip: http://www.imaginismstudios.com/