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September 01 - 10, 2006


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(Quotes from Ed in Red)


Sun, 10 Sep 2006


Signature Forms

Hi Ed,

Ed says;
If you have a recurring drama, a signature form and a burning desire to get through them, send me an email outlining the situation, making a guess as to the label on your hat and declaring your wish to surrender to the process.

When I say I have a “signature form”, by this I mean that when I bring an issue to the Hotseat the form is always more or less the same, regardless of the Hotseat issue.

For example, I take the issue of Frustration to the hotseat & I am able to quickly get into a particular form. On another occasion, the issue is disliking the feeling of having people that are dependant on me and wanting me to be there for them & do things for them, again I can get into my form which is the same form as above.

Another issue is a relationship drama, similar form again.

Another issue is the feeling of overwhelm, similar form again.

Another issue is a particular annoying person Etc etc

I don’t really feel as though I reach any sort of resolution at the end of my hotseat sessions.

O.k. So it’s a different drama but the same form always (or more accurately, the character & shape of the form is the same, after all there will always be some minor subtle differences between each form)

The form always begins with me sitting in the hotseat chair and screwing up my upper lip & nose area, it then becomes my whole face & neck. My whole face & neck is held in tension, all screwed up, face grimacing. The tension then continues on to my shoulders, my chest & my upper back.


My fists, forearms & biceps are always clenched tightly & I begin to hunch my back & buckle over, head towards my knees. I eventually find myself on the floor – all the time I keep everything squeezed and tight, really really tight. It’s as though I’m squeezing myself into a tight ball.

Sometimes, I feel as though I’m being attacked and I need to curl up to protect myself. Sometimes I feel the urge to hide, sometimes not.

Sometimes I yell out to be left alone and to stop being hassled.

Whilst I carry out my form, sometimes I feel as though I want to start to punch (which I do in the form). I feel as though I want to carry out some serious violence. (not to any one person in particular, just a general feeling of wanting to inflict damage, to break something, to really hurt someone/something.)

I think of school days and being bullied and wanting to hit back, I sometimes think of authority figures & of people who tell me what to do and again I feel the urge to punch out.

Sometimes I just think of something that I perceive to be unfair.

It’s as though I want to SMASH THE WORLD!

I’m aware of these so called ‘anti-social’ tendencies, yet at the same time I’m a very social person. (or so I’ve been told)

I’m also aware that part of me has a very big need for acceptance and approval. I feel as though this is somehow related to the above. I want people to like me and I want them to think highly of me. I do things to gain approval from others and I care about what others think of me

I don’t tell my friends that I ‘do’ TTP, I don’t even tell friends I attend a TTP workshop. I fear that they might think I’m some kinda new age freak and as a consequence they might think less of me. (which I know wouldn’t happen, it’s just how I feel)

In the trading field, I’m aware that one reason I might trade, (other than for money profit), is so that I can be successful and have others think “Wow, what a really great, smart person”.

Yet, from what I know, most people already think I’m a very likable person. People I meet for the first time & those I already know tend to like me and get along quite well with me.

So I want people to approve of me, yet people already do. Huh??!! It don’t make sense

These descriptions above are recurring themes that I’m aware of and have outlined in previous emails to FAQ.

I’m not really 100% sure how these issues limit me and how they prevent me from achieving my fullest potential, but I suspect(?) they contribute to a kind of low grade ‘stuckness’ that my life seems to be in. Not totally stuck mind you, just not getting things done at the speed at which i would like.

Now as far as the ‘Rocks" process is concerned, I would hazard a guess and say the following might apply;

“I want to smash the world”

“Fuck you, George Bush <or insert any other Authority figure instead>”

“I want people to think I’m good”

“I want people to like me”

“I’m stuck” – (possibly?/maybe?)


So yes, I am aware that I have these tendencies (and have been aware of these even before I’d heard of TTP) but as your reply to someone’s FAQ titled “Love” & dated Fri, 8 Sep 2006 states;

Lucy says “Recognizing your faults and actually changing your ways are two different things, Charlie Brown!”

Yes! I can relate to this

So, having written all of the above I declare my willingness & my desire to surrender to the process and to work through my issues.

All suggestions and any further information re: “Rocks Process” & its implementation would be most appreciated.

Thank you for sharing your process.


You might consider carrying a rock around with you in your pocket.  Whenever you find yourself in one of your recurring dramas involving frustration or wanting to smash something, reach for the rock and squeeze your feelings into it.  After a few days, you might try putting a label on the rock that characterizes your role in the drama.



In a Recurring Drama


you might find yourself

assuming the role of

soldier, or teaser, or victim

or having to be perfect

or unable to commit.


As long as you are carrying the rock

you attract the drama.







Sat, 9 Sep 2006


Hats Off to Rocks Off!

Hi Ed,

A quick observation on Rocks while I have it in mind:

I notice that, like Freud, you seem to grow somewhat pessimistic about the efficacy of your method (cf. Analysis Terminable and Interminable (1938), and also, more interesting, Mourning and Melancholia (1917), where I think Freud all but gives up on the "patient"). And, also like Freud, you have divided the myth of psyche into three parts.

I wonder what these similarities imply. However, I also note that, unlike Freud, you admirably draw attention to the fact that your model is metaphorical (by using comical terms, Fred, Rocks and Hats) and also unlike Freud, you humbly seek expansion of your insights through collaboration.

Rocks is inspiring and I commit to contributing to the development of a method that might give all of us the power to rewrite the sentences we live under.

Thanks, as always, for all of your work.

Hats Off,

Early TTP in which we use a healing field of acknowledgment to encourage the appearance and disappearance of forms is still an essential part of the work.


It seems particularly effective where the sender is already in alignment with right livelihood and has some of his feelings in k-nots.


TTP is now also addressing a set of issues that relate to discovering and aligning with right livelihood.




The Mad Hatter

from Alice and Wonderland

by Lewis Carroll

(Charles Lutwidge Dodgson)


"In that direction," the Cat said, waving its right paw round, "lives a Hatter: and in that direction," waving the other paw, "lives a March Hare. Visit either you like: they're both mad." "But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked. "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice. "You must be, said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."


Clip: http://wilsonsalmanac.blogspot.com/


Fri, 8 Sep 2006


Experiencing Emotions

see Who's Ted

This may be mundane to someone who answers 100s of emails on emotions, but I think it is slowly becoming more than words ...

I notice that you mention the difference between most traders is emotional.

I'm slowly coming to believe that our emotions exist, and our descriptions of them (i.e. hard, difficult, bad, terrible, yucky ...) are really imbedded support for judgments (or perhaps even avoidance) of them.

My inference: The distance between now and snapshots uncompleted is largely willingness to experience these emotions.

This seems to tie in to your concept that time doesn't exist, just the evolving moment of now.

I notice that when I truly enjoy something, I don't notice anything else. However the opposite is true when I am avoiding, dreading or frustrated with a task.

I wonder which emotions have positive intentions and wisdom for the conscious mind (intended to become part of the emotional control panel) and which emotions are largely meant to be just part of the experience. For example, I notice that many things meaningful to me require frustration, work, challenge ... etc. I think this may always be the case.

In TTP all emotions have positive intentions, including dread and frustration and all are part of the experience of living.






may provide a reality check

on what we think we are holding

as our intentions



Clip: http://www.working-well.org/


Fri, 8 Sep 2006


Ed Says: My experience with the Rocks Process is that our attempts to analyze our own patterns and to overcome them by will power are futile.

And just like you can't see the label on a real hat, you can't see the label on the TTP hat you are wearing.

We then run step-by-step simulations to see if we can re-create the drama, say winding up home alone with pornography, and having married and otherwise sexually unavailable women as friends.

Right, certainly, trying to overcome the patterns solely by own will power is futile. We concur here. Yet throwing in the towel I think isn't the solution either.


Typically people sum up will power and resort to a Higher Power, and then also look for the support of a community, religious or not, start activities that might help in the recovery process, etc. Intentional communities are just one example I think.


I believe that drama are like addictive patterns such as alcoholism, drug use, workaholism, sex addiction, porn addiction, etc. The first step is the will to overcome the pattern, even though a lot of failures, trial and error, might follow.

Ed Says: In your case, the process might begin with some guesses like: "Sex is dirty," "I like to be a victim," "I prefer being alone," "I have to help people," or "Women reject me."

I think the issue of dramas in intimate relationships are very complex because they often involve intertwining patterns, or "rocks", of both partners. I feel I currently have better clarity about the process.


I believe love can also be a game of probabilities, where result equals intention. I would just add that women, too, always get what they want. This is a two-way, intertwining process.

Now, I guess, it's up to me to be clear about what I want and go for it. That's it. That's what I do. I am currently into a rather gloomy situation with a would-be girlfriend. I currently have to decide whether to "move on" or "go on". I guess though the game of love has to unfold naturally and spontaneously. So I do not feel like sharing it or bringing it to analysis. As you say, it's futile.


Your concept of the Rocks process (below) sounds interesting. Do you think there is a way I can benefit from your tribe modeling and simulations? I mean, I don't have a Tribe and so I don't see how I could participate in it.

Ed Says: We then run step-by-step simulations to see if we can re-create the drama, say winding up home alone with pornography, and having married and otherwise sexually unavailable women as friends.

Then, once we have a rock that seems to fit and that supports the simulations, we proceed with a rather free-form intuitive process of role playing and deep trance induction that assists the sender to re-experience the situation during which he first adopts the hat.

Once he sees the circumstances of his acceptance of the rock and how the rock controls his life, he may then (still in trance) elect to forgive the rock or return the rock to its donor.

Thereafter, the sender no longer carries the rock. He may experience a sense of relief and deep satisfaction and several days of profound dis-orientation.

Non-productive drama tends to disappear from the sender's life. He naturally tends to avoid his historical co-dependent partners and he naturally selects new partners that are more in line with right livelihood


I concur with your observations that admitting you likely cannot change on your own and sharing resources with a community are essential steps toward change.


TTP, as an intellectual approach is unlikely to lead to resolving actual emotional wounds.


Will power may wind up being the propellant that drives your drama around its cycle.





People Tend to Repeat Patterns


even when they understand them

and vow to avoid them.



Lucy and Charlie Brown in Peanuts repeat a drama.  Charlie runs at the ball to kick it.  When Charlie commits, Lucy removes the ball and Charlie kicks air and falls on his back.

Lucy then repents and promises to mend her ways. Charlie trusts her again and takes another run at the ball.  Again, she removes it and Charlie again winds up on his back.


At the end of several cycles, Lucy says “Recognizing your faults and actually changing your ways are two different things, Charlie Brown!”


Clip: http://static.flickr.com/37/



Fri, 8 Sep 2006


Learning or Imitating ?

Hi Ed,

I think the more we learn about trading the more reliant on what we learn and stop thinking about it, we start imitating from what we have learned which makes us lose the whole point of finding an edge and understanding where it comes from.

I mean that learning is much easier that thinking about something. Also when we learn a lot of words and definitions which is created by others we become restricted by these definitions.




Riding a Bicycle


is one more thing

you learn to do

without a teacher.



Clip: http://www.freephoto1.com/


Thu, 7 Sep 2006


Who's Ted?


Ed Says: "Whatever your pattern, including indecision, you likely have some deep commitment to it."

Ed, I read your essay about the Rocks Process. I notice the example you use is an excellent model of typical relationship dramas. I am in awe of your deep commitment about moving forward with your Tribe project and willingness to help other people to overcome their limitations.

I wish to add some observations to your vision, drawn from my own experience.

I feel that, of course, the inherent limitation of either the TTP process or the Rock Process is the "intention" and willingness of the sender to overcome his/her own limitations or commitment to achieve his/her goals in life.


I notice that most people would rather learn by their own trial and error rather than accepting "help" from someone else. This typically requires the sender to acknowledge that there is "something wrong" with him / her. Such acknowledgement implies "invalidation" of their own being and they are likely to reject it or develop hatred towards it. People typically respond better when they feel they are loved or "validated" by someone else as they are.

I came to this conclusion out of my own experience. I share with you how I view my own process:

During childhood I am deeply influenced by two single aunts who transfer their resentment and frustration towards men to me. I am taught to be a romantic, sensitive men who is willing to do anything to "conquer" the love of a woman and "make" her "happy". I am also given an idealized image of woman, i.e., that woman are sensitive, romantic, that they like sensitive, caring and gentle men. That they like men who have initiative, who are successful, hardworking, etc.


In short I am taught a lot of these modern feminist bullshit. I am also taught than men are rude, dirty and also that sex is dirty (more transfer and feminist bullshit). I am taught that men are responsible for the happiness of a woman (more transfer and feminist bullshit).

As I become a teenager I start to experience difficulty in relating to girls. I experience a lot of rejection and so the hard lesson of experience begins. After I experience with TTP I acknowledge these co-dependent patterns and how I am vulnerable to fall prey to abusive, manipulative and controlling women who like to "punish" me, humiliate or demand perfection from me (just like my aunts).

As I become aware of the unhealthy patterns I try to overcome them. I manage to decrease the level of the recurring dramatic patterns by responding faster to the unhealthy situation, and validating my anger. Yet I still have some recurrences of feeling attracted to women who are apparently sensitive, romantic "good girls". I do a lot of effort to "conquer" them and get practically no emotional response, or a simple rejection. I acknowledge they typically prefer a "confident, etc." jerk instead. I acknowledge they also are getting what they want, in spite of all the feminist bullshit propaganda.

I make friends with a special woman who apparently acknowledges my vulnerability and drama and starts supporting, validating and giving me affection and love. She acknowledges I find her attractive and also validates my feeling towards her. I start to feel better self-esteem as a man and emotionally more self-confident.


We eventually become great friends. I feel supported, nurtured, protected and loved by her. I start to have an insight that there might be other girls like her out there and I start to know how to tell the difference between a jerk-loving woman and a love-deserving woman.

As of this date I have managed also to make friends with another "love-deserving", supportive girl. She has a boyfriend though. I keep looking for a single, "love-deserving", supportive girlfriend.

Yet, I still have experienced with a rather strange pattern. I still feel sometimes attracted to girls I feel I can "help", "protect" or "rescue" them from getting involved with jerks.


But my efforts are to no avail. I get no emotional response, no intimacy and I have to drift away "defeated". I drift away with a sense of gloom, for my efforts are not acknowledged and I feel myself rejected. I cannot cope with this deep frustration and pain that ensues and typically resort to hardcore porn to relief emotional pain.


I acknowledge that I might have difficulties validating my own lust or sexual drive. Then I also resort to the friendship of this special woman. She makes me feel better. I love her. Through her love I sense the beginning of healthier patterns in my relationships, as a result of my better self-esteem. I have also always resorted a lot to spirituality. I typically joke with her that she's an angel sent by God to heal the wounds of my heart.

Now I keep looking for a supportive, single girlfriend, who's willing to commit and experience intimacy with me.

"The principles of lust
are easy to understand
do what you feel
feel until the end

the principles of lust
are burned in your mind
do what you want
do it until you find
(Find Love, Enigma)

The lyrics of this song also seem to be burned in my mind.

If you feel you can use this report to make a simulation of the Rocks Process in your tribe, feel free to do it, provided you keep my name confidential.

Yet I feel I can attain full recovery by nurturing healthy relationships with healthy women. I feel the process of flirtation and looking for intimacy is much like placing a trade.


We place it and try. Once we acknowledge it's a loser we quickly get out. I believe that chances are a healthy relationship ensues when both partners have the intention to nurture a healthy intimate relationship, in the sense that one partner is the realization of the intention of the other. Of course we know this is true also for dramatic setups.

Thank you for sharing your process.


My experience with TTP is that our attempts to analyze our own patterns and to overcome them by will power are futile.


Standard therapeutic approaches rely on analysis, understanding and then conscious effort to overcome patterns and train new habits.


TTP differs from these approaches.


In TTP, we now use gut feel, analytics and a simulation model to help identify a hat we think might fit. 


In your case, the process might begin with some guesses like: "Sex is dirty,"  "I like to be a victim,"  "I prefer being alone,"  "I have to help people,"  or "Women reject me."


We then run step-by-step simulations to see if we can re-create the drama, say winding up home alone with pornography, and having married and otherwise sexually unavailable women as friends.


Then, once we have pattern seems to fit and that supports the simulations, we proceed with a rather free-form intuitive process of role playing and deep trance induction that assists the sender to re-experience the situation during which he first adopts the pattern.


Once he sees the circumstances of his acceptance of the pattern and how the pattern controls his life, he may then (still in trance) elect to reject the pattern. 


Thereafter, the sender no longer carries the pattern.  He may experience a sense of relief and deep satisfaction and several days of profound dis-orientation.


Non-productive drama tends to disappear from the sender's life. He naturally tends to avoid his historical co-dependent partners and he naturally selects new partners that are more in line with right livelihood.




No Matter How Much You Analyze

or how much will power you use


you wind up acting out

your patterns.


Clip: http://slivki.tritiumnet.org/Pictures/


Fri, 8 Sep 2006


Wants to Participate in Rocks Process


I am interested in exploring the new extensions to TTP and would like information on how to participate.

See More Information, below.

Fri, 8 Sep 2006



Hi Ed,

I am fascinated by your essay "Rocks". Can you give me more information about how to participate?

Thank you


See More Information, below.

Fri, 8 Sep 2006



(copy of inter-Tribe email)


I am more than interested in moving this technology
forward, and I believe a blending of a few ideas is

Re golf, I was losing my edge in a major way and
after an interesting conversation with another golfer
I made a change in my mindset ...from prey to
predator ... from being defensive to attacking. It has
made a real difference ... Now I need to bring this to my trading.

Re Ed's Rocks idea I am all for some experimenting, I just believe that the KISS system should be adhered

Thank you for your observations.  The model is moving toward simplicity.




Fri, 8 Sep 2006


Rocks  - More Information  Please

Hi Ed,

I finish reading your ‘Rocks’ presentation and I find it most fascinating. It strikes a chord with me in that in my TTP efforts I find myself constantly repeating the same form over & over, my ‘signature form’ if you will, with no real resolution. I can relate to the stagnation as outlined in your essay.

If I understand correctly, according to the Rocks model, Fred pumps a feeling for the duck to carry. Meanwhile, the rock (being the Governor a.k.a. the ‘wise guy’) overrides that feeling and directs the duck to carry another different feeling to the ‘outside world’ such that the message on the rock that I carry is always maintained.

Hence in this setup minimal progress is achieved as far as gaining insights & wisdom is concerned.

After all how could there be progress if the feeling being pumped by Fred is overridden by another feeling as directed by the Rock.

So, one needs to determine the Rock that one carries and ultimately, once recognized, the afore-mentioned may be removed.

Intellectually, I understand how the model works for the specific examples outline in your essay.

Experientially, I have no understanding at all (but am willing to try).

Therefore, I would like to take up your offer as outlined at the end of your essay for more information re: the new  techniques and methods.

You may contact me via return email with any details and information.

Thanks Kindly,

This work seems to be progressing somewhat by discussions and mostly by participating in the process. 






helps lubricate most processes.




Thu, 7 Sep 2006


TTP and Rocks

(copy of Inter-Tribe Email)

I only read the Rocks paper just now.  It looks very
interesting and it hit a few hot spots for me. Recently, I have been hard at work on some ideas of my own. I have not spoken to Ed in a month but he has been on my mind.

It appears that Ed and I and perhaps others have come to a similar crossroad with regards to where to go from here. It is clear that we have met with great success and have found a method in TTP that is robust and simply works.


It is continually tested and experimented with in various Tribes around the world and in the end we come back to the basic application itself unadorned with bells and whistles.


Many of us, yourself included have become very, very good with this tool over the past few years. However, there are times where TTP belongs nearby in the tool belt and another tool or another hand or perhaps another hat needs to move in as TTP is not the right tool for the job.


I am giving this considerable exploration and have been looking forward to getting back next Tuesday after our brief summer break to discuss and further develop these ideas with the Tribe.

Much of my thinking is centered on identity and how it seems to show up in one way or another in our snapshots. One person with a snapshot for several categories such as trading, family, fitness and fun will inevitably have their identity in the picture and their body.


Sometimes those identities are the same and sometimes they are different (I suspect that even when they seem the same, they may be more different than you think). Determining those identities and shuffling them around to different snapshots would be an interesting experiment. For example, what happens when you take the meat eating, ass kicking athlete in your fitness snapshot and move him into your professional, organized and disciplined trading snapshot? I think the results could be interesting.

Now, imagine that if after working through the feelings, ideas, conflicts, confusion and excitement of bringing your fitness identity or an evolution of it into your trading identity you decide to implement it in real life. What happens?


It feels funny. Have you ever changed something in your golf swing and noticed how odd it feels at first? The three fundamentals of golf are grip, posture and alignment. Most people might ask: "but what about the swing?" Why swing if you don't have a grip and you are pointing in the wrong direction? When a teacher changes your alignment and asks you to swing, it is not uncommon to fold the sod over the ball as it does not feel natural at all.


Often, you go backwards and want to switch back to the old swing as your results simply suck! However, with practice and support, the ball begins to fly in alignment with the body and target. Other times, with the support of others a subtle change in a fundamental can create phenomenal results. Just last weekend, Tiger Woods called his coach Hank Haney and over the phone they decided on a modest change in posture which had instant results the next day. As you know, Tiger was also willing to make large changes in his fundamentals years ago that seem to be bearing fruit now.

It feels like there is a bunch of work in the back of my head that is starting to find its way out in words. Fortunately, I happen to know some guys that can help accelerate that process!


I love you guys and look forward to getting our boots on and going back to work on Tuesday. I also plan on going down to Incline Village in October. About 2 weeks ago, I started having a positive, energetic recurring dream/image of Piranhas and laughed when I saw Ed's Piranha hat. I want to try that one on!

Thank you for joining in the exploration.

Thu, 07 Sep 2006


Taking Exception

I take exception to your statement below:

Ed Says: "In the case where the relationship is deeply in conflict, the career is tenuous and the fundamental attitude is dissatisfaction, TTP seems to provide little growth or even relief."

My relationship with my wife nine months ago was in very deep conflict, and my new career attempt four months ago extremely tenuous. However, possibly because my fundamental attitude has always been positive, TTP really turned my marriage around with only one hot seat. And due to a tribe member's bold suggestion I changed my Right Livelihood, placing my former career attempt under Fun.

Though I may be an exception rather than the rule.

Another tribe member, seemingly stuck for about a year or more, has now blossomed and made progress through perseverance.

Hmmm ... You take exception and you may be an exception.


The improvements many people experience through TTP is largely about getting their feelings in alignment with right livelihood.


You and your wife may already both have hats that support each other along a path of growth and enjoyment.




Working with your Feelings


tends to realize the message

you have on your hat.


Wed, 6 Sep 2006


re: Reporting on [Name]


the purpose of my previous e-mail is:

1. To follow up on my commitment I make, which is to report if [Name] sticks to the commitment.
2. To hold [Name] accountable for the commitments  at the Breathwork weekend.

Right now I am feeling angry and attacked (burning in my chest, tingling on the side of my face). I feel I supported [Name] during Breathwork and now there is no follow-through, which really pisses me off the more I think about it. Thank you for challenging me.

Some Rocks seem to lock into natural co-dependence.  If one or the other person manages to return the rock, the drama ends.






People who Tease

and Victims


are natural method actors

in each others' dramas.


Wed, 6 Sep 2006


Rocks Model

This seems like this is an important shift. The write-up is good and descriptive - creates the desire to experience it.


Still it seems ethereal to me - I suppose once you do it, you understand on a very different level ... finding the key rock (s) is the "key" and does not seem easy or obvious.

Yes, the shift in perspective is both subtle and powerful and seems to become clearer after you go through the process.



Wed, 6 Sep 2006


Cambridge Workshop Experience

I locate a k-not via the form by working it to consciousness using the Trading Tribe process and unconditional support and acceptance at the Cambridge Workshop.

I am sender. My tribe identifies the form. I am encouraged to go with it. I do. I am willing.

I am grammar school age. I work math problems at home in my room. My right hand is cramping. I can not write solutions to basic arithmetic for a homework assignment. I can not hold the pencil !

He is a perfectionist and he wants that I be perfect. To be a perfectionist – this he feels is the highest calling.


Shame on all who can not see the light! It has to be perfect. Everything has to be just right. Sit at the desk. Use proper lighting. Quiet!


The result must be perfect.


There is a perfect WAY for everything to be done. He ALONE determines how the perfect result is to be achieved. The perfect way to do things: his way.

I’m now typing to you with only one hand as my right hand is starting to cramp. My communication must be perfect. I want that you understand! But will you be angry with me if it’s not done perfectly?

I experience this feeling NOW. It’s ok if you understand. It’s ok if you don’t. It’s ok if you are angry. It’s ok if you are not angry. It’s ok to be perfect. It’s ok to not be perfect. I do it this way. It’s not the only way. It’s not the perfect way. It’s the way I do it.

Now when I want to do something I just begin. I just begin.

Thank you for sharing your process.


You might consider returning the "I'm Perfect" rock to its creator.




When you have to be perfect


you can't risk starting anything.

Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006


The Rocks Process

For Pete's Sake


This is a very thought provoking message and method. I recognize some concerns I have such as anger being a "cover" for hurt / sadness. I recognize this in folks often. I try to feel the underlying emotion and leave the defensive response of anger behind.


I applaud all your efforts to help yourself and others towards right livelihood. I believe that is what we are all here for.


I sometimes wear the "I am not worthy" hat. I find this very annoying since I know in CM that I am as worthy as the guy sitting next to me for Pete's sake!

Thank you for sharing your process.











Tue, 5 Sep 2006





Are we continuing the snapshot process? If so, how does that all fit together?

IVTT is currently exploring the Rocks Process.  At this point, I am not clear how it fits together with Snapshots.

 Tue, 5 Sep 2006


Do You Know Anything About ...

Nice to meet you here. Heard about you on the internet ... I believe in not reinventing the wheel and just going to the best for the best ... So please if you don't mind ... If I may ask ... you ... Do you know anything about offshore structures? Would you be able to please recommend a resource you trust on this topic. And if possible any other recommendations or advice on this subject. I'm looking into this direction in the near future.

Yes, I know something about offshore structures.


FAQ does not recommend commercial products.  See ground rules.


Congratulations on your ability to do things in the (near) future.

Tue, 5 Sep 2006


TSP: Simple Support-Resistance-System


Dear Ed,

Today I finished the support/resistance-system. First I had the same rounding errors like you, too! Now I fixed the problem and match your results to the penny for both, the 140/20 and the 120/45 run. I ran this particular system for the S&P data too and contrary. It seems that you have to test various systems for each data separately to find the best system for it and then to combine the different data with the different optimal systems like you did in your diversification study.

Regrettably I don’t have any data to continue with the trend tutorial exercise. I also see, that the last update was half a year ago and hope, that it isn’t to late now!

Thanks for sharing this project in public !

I am open for an apprentice to help move the work forward.

Sun, 3 Sep 2006




I see that you speak at the ‘International Investors & Traders Summit’ in Singapore , and if I attend, one of the ‘traders’ will ‘uncover the best-kept secrets about stocks, commodities and options’. Seems like the ‘secrets’ will only cost a couple of grand (US), secrets are usually worth more, I consider going.

I wonder where you take TTP …

I do not know what secrets the other speakers intend to reveal as these are, well, secret.


I can tell you a couple "secrets" about purveyors of secrets:

1. There are no secrets.

2. They don't want you to know that.

Currently I am taking TTP into the Rocks Process. See the link, above.




People Who Tell You

they have secrets


tend to put their secrets

on public media.



People who really have secrets

typically don't talk about them.



Clip: http://www.piano-playing-by-ear.com/

Fri, 1 Sep 2006


The System is the Key

I know this fellow; he trades a system that’s not very good at making money. It’s pretty good at losing money, nice and slow, as to keep him trading, “profits are just around the corner” attitude. He’s an active TTP practitioner, but his system is the source of his problem.

I think that the system is the real key – TTP without a great system is useless for traders – it’s great for other parts of life – like relationships, and dealing with oneself but as for trading – I think it’s unsatisfactory. From what I see, TTP does not help one find/create a good/great trading system. If you have a good system, TTP helps make it great.

I see many practitioners of TTP who really want to be successful traders, practice TTP, who spend time back testing and risk a lot of money. Many of these salesman; I mean, traders, lose money. When they try to find out how to improve their system, they’re met with distain. (We don’t talk about that here).

I for one would love to help them, but I do not have the skills in computer programming. Nor do I have enough of the dense grey matter to trade a mechanical technical through a + 50% drawdown.


I think of sending them to the associates program, but I don’t know what help they would get, I remember reading that you need to get there with a ‘good’ system already. I think that getting the good system is 90% of the game …

With the highest respect,

You may lack the skills.  You may lack grey matter (between your ears and between your legs).  You do not seem to lack excuses.




When you carry around  "Excuse Me"


Tinkering with Fred


is a pointless "excusize."



Clip: http://www.everypicture.com/shop/books/



Fri, 01 Sep 2006


Trading is like Dieting

Hey Ed :)

I don't know if you remember me ...I met with you for a private consultation maybe seven years ago, during the dot-com days. At the time I had sold my sign store and adult internet business, and was trying to learn as much as I could on trading. I'm glad I paid to see you as you molded much of my trading ideology in ways I had never thought of up until that time. I think our meeting went basically like this ...

Me: "ok Mr Seykota, now tell me the secret system!"

Ed: "I'm sorry Andy, there is no secret system. There are many good systems, none are magic."

Me: (gasping) , "Come on Ed! I know you have a secret system hidden in your back closet ... please tell me it! I know it is magic!"

hehehehe. At the time, I was like many traders, hell-bent on the idea that trading for a living was 100% about finding the magic system. You opened my eyes to the psychology behind trading. I am happy to tell you that I have been making my living trading ever since we spoke. Yes, the beginning was difficult and I took some punches, but I stayed out of trouble and things have gone as planned since. Currently I trade stocks but will venture into futures in the future when some financial targets are hit.

I think the best analogy I can think of, when people ask me the secrets of trading and about trading systems is to refer to dieting.


What percent of Americans are overweight? I would put this number at maybe 2/3rds. Of those people, how many of them know a good diet? I would hasten to say...probably all of them. The diet is the system ... and there are many good diets ...we all know them. At the heart of the issue is really "self discipline". Trading is less about the system, and more about self discipline. This rules applies to much of life, not just trading.

My results in the last 5 years


I believe this is roughly a 19% average ... not great but not bad and I have learnt more since the beginning. I think this would tie me with William J O'Neil and put me a little behind the Fools in the same time frame. This year I am down a little at -8% but continue to follow my ideas, come hell or high water.

just wanted to say hello and let you know the thoughts above and say thanks for teaching me.

Thank you for checking in.

Fri, 1 Sep 2006


One Million and Counting

Hello Breathwork Support Team!

As of September 1, 2006 AUM are $1.05MM. The fund does not have any capital infusions in August, and performance is down about 1% for the month. I continue to stick to the system.

I have some feelings of not liking the past 4 months performance and I feel impatient for the system to start making profits. I also have feelings of disliking marketing while recent performance is negative. I intend to take my feelings to the hotseat and integrate them at my next tribe meeting.

I commit to continue to report my assets under management to you, my Breathwork support team, on the first of each month until I reach $5 million under management.

Thanks for your support!

Thank you for sharing your process.

Fri, 01 Sep 2006


Experiment with Remote Attendance

I attended your IV meeting non-locally Thursday 8/31 at 2PM and 7PM.


The 2PM snapshot session was excellent, I was able to integrate some AHAs that I got from previous meetings!


The 7PM TTP session was poor, maybe
because it was too late for me. It felt lonely and scary.

I will continue this remote attendance with my tribe and attending both tribes non-locally and in non-linear time (the ultimate DIM experience) to experiment.

TTP is a wonderful tool which I've found very helpful and very magical. But at some point I feel that a tool can become a crutch especially if it depends on a group methodology that might not be available to me. If your own intention for TTP

"..is for people to experience it, and for it to disappear and become just another passing AHA."

to me that would mean learning how to do TTP in a DIM fashion.

Your comments, even your spankings, are always welcome,

Curiously, the 8/31 Meeting of IVTT does not conduct the Snapshot Process that you claim to attend remotely.  We are now currently conducting the Rocks Process.


You might consider seeking professional help about your spankings.


Beatrix the Dominatrix


When you really want it right


hire a professional.


Clip: http://www.users.qwest.net/~efotheringham/