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September 11 - 20, 2006


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(Quotes from Ed in Red)


Wed, 20 Sep 2006


Trading Tribe Site

Hi Ed,

Probably received this info already but just to let you know that TT internet site is not loading and linking to attached link (this was at 10:40pm Wed 9/20/06)
http://sites.godaddy.com/sites.html .

See reply in next issue.

Wed, 20 Sep 2006


New ideas

see Chemistry

Ed, I am starting to put things right. This weekend I made a research of local folklore groups and found out that a colleague in my workplace is member of the one I liked. I also contacted some friends so that we may go together to healthy balls regularly. I am researching places to go. Of course, we shall also experiment


Wed, 20 Sep 2006


Trading Tribe Site


The Trading Tribe site - www.tradingtribe.com  - is down since two days. I am missing a lot of insights from you, Sir.

If there is any change in the site address please do let me know. I can hardly afford to miss the site.

See reply in next issue.

Tue, 19 Sep 2006



Rocks, huh. What happened to Hats? An even bigger question, what happened to Ed's website? Did he forget to pay his hosting fee because the bill was due in the non-existent future? (Yuck, yuck, yuck.)

So for my Rock sound, auditory anchor, I decided to sing War Pigs by Black Sabbath. This worked great in my shed, my family looked at me a little weird, but it drew quite a crowd at the super market!

I'm kind of wondering, if Ed Seykota changes his method to Umbrellas, so that every time you had a drama you took an umbrella stuck it up your ass opened it, would we all rush out and do it cause "Ed says ... "

It looks like good, old-fashioned, easy-to-learn, works-like-magic TTP is gone, and me with it. TTP has been a wonderful tool that has helped me a lot, brought me back to my true Right Livelihood. I want to thank all of you for your support and suggestions, you're a great group. But all good things come to an end; it's time for me to move on.

Best wishes,

Early TTP continues to provide benefits in various areas. See the link to Rocks, above.


The Rocks process is an extension of TTP for people who want to take the work to another level of discovering personal patterns such as a tendency to express fear of change as anger and hostility.





Umbrella Process


Use various umbrellas

in various ways

to express your feelings.


Clip: http://www.adcomarketing.com/images/


Tue, 19 Sep 2006


TTP for Docile Women

PS If I can ever be helpful to you re: your
"therapeutic" strategies for middle-aged women, let me know.


Especially those who are married to or in relationship with Type A personality men. These are the hardest.

My literature review and experience with Type A personalities is that "smart" women who want truly intimate relationships escape or walk away from Type A personalities ultimately - if those types do not change. The only women, I can discern, who remain with Type A men are women who are subservient, conciliatory, un-liberated, docile.

"Type A" (versus Type B) indicates reticence about showing emotion, care about showing up on time, use money as a measure of personal value and dislike dirt. 


Myers & Briggs Indicators use:


Extraversion (E) or Introversion (I).
Sensing (S) or Intuition (N).
Thinking (T) or Feeling (F).
Judging (J) or Perceiving (P)


to get a composite indicator such as ESTJ, one of sixteen possibilities.


In the Rocks Process, we feel that Rocks (critical behavior patterns) are better indicators of personal  chemistry.



Personal Chemistry


might have to do with

seeing each other

as a way to resolve deep issues.



Clip: http://www.finseth.com/Bryce/


Tue, 19 Sep 2006


Site Down



Your web site is still down.



I am unable to connect to www.tradingtribe.com  - it gives me the message:

This site is currently unavailable.

If you are the owner of this site, please contact us at 1-480-505-8855 at your earliest convenience.

Thought you might like to know.

See reply in next issue.

Mon, 18 Sep 2006


Site Down



When I try to go to www.tradingtribe.com 
I get this: http://sites.godaddy.com/sites.html




Is the website down? When I try to get to www.seykota.com  I am redirected to http://sites.godaddy.com/sites.html and it says "Ooops!!! This site is currently unavailable. If you are the owner of this site, please contact us at 1-480-505-8855 at your earliest convenience."



When I try to get to the web site I am routed to
http://sites.godaddy.com/sites.html instead.

See reply in next issue.

Mon, 18 Sep 2006


Feels Chemistry for Bitches

I also often find myself feeling "chemistry" with and attracting girls who already have a boyfriend and are apparently unsatisfied with their relationship, and seem to be looking for more "options" or playing manipulative games.


I hate this behavior on their part, but I seemingly can't help attracting these bitches.

Thank you for sharing your process.


The Rock you are carrying might make your drama pattern inevitable for you.




There is no Accounting for Taste


until you see the rock.



Clip: http://oraculations.blogspot.com/uploaded_


Mon, 18 Sep 2006


A Revolting Rock

Ed, there is an episode in my childhood which I think has a greater influence on who I am today. Our father used to punish us with a belt or a whip, out of disobedience or for the sake of discipline.


Nevertheless he used to be affectionate towards us in our early childhood.

Last night I remembered these episodes, just before sleeping.


As he sometimes was unfair in doing the beating, I remembered how one day I revolted against his authority and threatened him. I remember how he was shocked and surprised. But from that day on he never beat me anymore.

Nowadays I am usually confronted with these memories when I find myself alone and lonely, such as after asserting myself and expressing my anger towards a girl who has disappointed me.


I feel I tend to repeat this episode in myself such as trusting and being affectionate towards someone, or doing a lot of effort to try to win her affection, and later having to resort to anger to assert and protect myself. The incipient relationship also tends to abruptly break up and I usually end up getting in touch with my "deep inner loneliness".

Thank you for sharing your process.


In the Rocks model, your father finally succeeds in transferring the "revolt" rock to you.


Thereafter, in situations involving conflict and danger to yourself, you apply the "drama-in-the-rock" to revolt against the other person.


You may even pre-select people whom you feel might make good candidates for this "revolting" drama.


Part of the Rocks process is to realize that you cannot escape from the drama by analyzing it or trying to change it.


Another part is to return to the critical event and to forgive the rock and set yourself free to respond in a wider variety of ways. 


For more on the Rocks Process, see the link to Rocks, above.



Some Patterns Tend to Persist


until we go back

and forgive our attachments to them



Clip: http://www.heritage.nf.ca/law/images/







18 Sep 2006


Role of TTP


Please explain the role of TTP, particularly, when a trading system, like the one that is displayed in TSP, is in place to follow the trend.

TTP is a set of tools, and does not include a requirement for deployment.


Tools Don't Have a Role


until you give them one.



Clip: http://www.flibberkids.com/images/


Mon, 18 Sep 2006




Re-experiencing = making those experiences to be felt again (as if they are happening again). Isn't it ?


Yes, by re-experiencing critical events we are opening an opportunity to re-program ourselves on an emotional, gut level.

Sun, 17 Sep 2006


Trading Beliefs about the Markets


A footnote to my prior email about Hats and Rocks process.

I think I don’t really trade the markets, I trade my beliefs about the markets.

Some of my beliefs are useful, some of my beliefs are not useful, and some of my beliefs are harmful to my trading.

Thank you for the TTP process where I can take a look at that.

A belief is cognitive content that you hold to be true. 


In addition to trading your beliefs, you are likely also trading your feelings, about the markets, about your worth and about yourself.




"Strong and blind belief is a virtue."


"OK then.  I will strongly believe

that you don know much of anything."



While focusing on the content of beliefs,

we might miss the lessons

the father and son

are teaching each other

about their relationship.



Clip: http://www.ntskeptics.org/cartoons/blind-belief-virtue.gif

Sun, 17 Sep 2006


Fond Farewell From LA Area oldest Tribe

(Beverly Hills)

Dear Ed

I appreciate our almost 4 years run.

My trend is no longer to be leader. And no one desire to take over.

I appreciate our removal from the TT Directory.

I love the TTP and continue using it, including visiting FAQ.

As always, I appreciate your support, offering TTP to the world.

Thank you for participating in the process and for becoming a passing aha.

Sun, 17 Sep 2006


Feedback on Rocks

Ed Says: As the child matures, he transfers the drama-in-the-rock from his parents to many other people in his life and the rock continues to control his entire life. The young adult now selects partners to fulfill the rock. The rock controls absolutely. Attempts to break out of the drama by following advice invariable fail. Indeed, the young adult may solicit advice and allies as part of extending the drama. Similarly, using logic and reason also fail. The rock controls feelings and feelings eventually trump logic and reason.

We are finding ways to return the sender to the "crime scene" and to support the child in rejecting the rock. We call this process "forgiving the rock." The parent tries to give the child the rock and this time the child does not take it. He forestalls the "gift." He forgives the rock. He also comes to see the parent is not evil. He sees the parent as a rather passive carrier of the rock and that the evil is in the rock.

Ed, the patterns you start to describe, such as the Rock going through the family tree, were extensively studied by Pia Mellody in his book "FACING CODEPENDENCE, What It Is, Where It Comes From, How It Sabotages Our Lives". She has divided her work in two parts: in this book she does a full discussion of the roots and symptoms of the disease, with a focus on childhood experiences. In her other book "Breaking Free: A Recovery Workbook for Facing Co-dependence" she outlines a kind of 12-step program for recovery.

I myself bought book one and started reading it a while ago. I haven't finished reading it yet. I have already read about the symptoms and the concept of boundaries. I am about to read the part two where she discusses the roots, such as physical, emotional, intellectual, spiritual and sexual abuse during childhood, and compares a "precious child" brought up into a functional family and into a dysfunctional family.

I think her work is useful in helping me becoming conscious of unhealthy patterns of behavior. At this point I can focus on the key feelings raised the dramatic situation. Whatever, as I draw from my own experience and as she and also you acknowledge the patterns are "insidious and subtle". I also feel there is a distinctive difference between being intellectually conscious of an unhealthy pattern and being emotionally conscious of it. Only the latter leads to recovery or "rock removal".

Whatever, I hope you're aware of the task you try to tackle.

Incidentally I also believe that part of the recovery process occurs spontaneously as we mature, specially as we interact socially. I find that one of the key maladies of modern society is the too individualistic style of living. That often drives us away from community experience and activities of interdependence or intimacy that might otherwise spontaneously facilitate the 'process' of becoming healthy adult individuals. I myself am thinking about starting some activities such as joining a local group of folklore dancing, going to healthy balls with friends, etc.

I wish you success.

The Rocks process extends conscious awareness of unconscious patterns toward emotional awareness of them.


When we learn to open ourselves up to new "instinctive" emotional responses, we can set ourselves free past the point we can do so by analysis, thinking and declarations.


I support your moving forward and joining some groups that may give you a field of support on a regular basis.



Folk Dancing


Good exercise, good fun,

and a good way to make friends.



Clip: http://www.folkdance.suite.dk/u0/fot2.jpg





Sun, 17 Sep 2006




I’ve been reading your papers.

In my experience, the TTP process seems to work great when the feelings are simple, or socially acceptable. But stagnates when there are beliefs or global decisions that filter; a complex set of feelings (multiple feelings simultaneously), or the not socially acceptable feelings, into simple or socially expressible ones.

We have members of our tribe with signature forms which I believe are more accurately described in the Rocks process. Where there is a real feeling causing the recurring destructive drama in the person’s life, but as in the Rocks process, it is unacceptable to express or is so unconscious that it is inexpressible on the hot seat. So what appears on the hot seat is a simple socially acceptable decoy feeling, which exhibits signature forms, and which makes little or no progress and stagnates.

The heart of the matter of this stagnation, I think is a belief or global decision which was put in place in a time of great trauma in an un-resourceful time in our life (like childhood) that translates the raw feeling we unconsciously feel into the one that we consciously experience and which appears in the outside in the world.

It seems to me that you are on the right track with the evolving Rocks process. Somehow we need to work backwards through the belief (global decision) to access the source feeling because experiencing the decoy feeling will never get to the heart of the wound to allow the healing. In most cases nothing will change until the belief is changed. The belief has no chance of changing until it has a name, and is re-evaluated and re-decided in a more resourceful state, that is in harmony with all other belief and feelings the person has.

I like the analogy of the Hats because people often go around the world completely unconscious of what feeling is on their hat but it is clear to the people that spend any time around them what the hat says.


The Tribe gathering is critical here because tribe members that don’t have that issue can guess from the behavior what the hat says. The sender can verify the accuracy of the tribe’s observations when the suggested hat label has the heat of a strong reaction.

I am unclear when the rock gets named. Is it carried without a name and then gets named in the tribe meeting?

If so, I can see how the Rocks process might work as well as the Hats version.

Using the Rock like an NLP anchoring process might be very effective at breaking through the belief into the real feelings on the hot seat.

To do this it seems very important to me that the rock is carried for some time with no name. That is it carried long enough to have the feeling with no name strongly associated with holding the rock and squeezing it exactly the same way when the feeling is very strong.


It probably would be best to have a unique rock each time this process is started and that squeezing the rock when the feeling is very strong happens more than a dozen times for the anchor to be strong. An unconscious or unacceptable feeling then would have some chance of appearing on the hot seat when the anchor is fired by the sender setting on the hot seat and squeezing the rock in the same way.


This process could bring the un-named, unconscious feeling up on the hot seat where traditional TTP works well. If there is no aha or behavior change then the tribe process of naming the rock might access the belief that is filtering the deeper feeling.


They could then suggest names for the rock until the sender reacts strongly to one and writes the name on the rock. Carrying the rock now with the name on it and squeezing it in exactly the same way when the feeling is very strong and anchoring that more than a dozen times again, might bring the feeling up on the next hot seat where traditional TTP might work well. Once the deep feeling is experienced then the name and belief might be examined in a resourceful and supported state where it can be re-decided.

Strong feelings seem to setup beliefs. Experiencing feelings is a way to get aha's that allow the re-evaluation of beliefs. Most of the major changes in my life, where I have experienced an immediate and permanent behavior change, happened when a belief was changed.

I applaud your efforts to evolve TTP to where re-deciding long standing un-useful beliefs is possible via the Hats or Rocks (or what ever it becomes named) process.

Thank you for engaging the discussion.


For more on Rocks, see the link above, particularly the new section on the Cartography of the Mind.

Sat, 16 Sep 2006


Ideal Girlfriend - 2

see below

Yes. I am her favorite son. She was very domineering during our childhood. My two brothers (one younger and another older) already have theirs. I am left. Now time has come for me to think about starting a relationship too.

If you have a rock that fits with your mother's rock you are likely to move on to attract a woman who has the same rock as your mother.




We Move Forward


through a series

of pretty good fits.


Clip: http://www.owlnet.rice.edu/~psyc351/


Sat, 16 Sep 2006


Ideal Girlfriend

see Does It with Mom

LOL. You sound funny. Philosophical questions aside, I start to realize I am not going to get the girlfriend I want sending you entries to post on FAQ. But, hey, that's will power! We're both trapped. LOL.

You already seem to have your ideal girl friend.

Sat, 16 Sep 2006



Ed Says: My experience with TTP is that our attempts to analyze our own patterns and to overcome them by will power are futile.

Ed, you're right. In spite of my attempts to deal with conflicts in my emotional life I typically end up feeling as though I am emotionally screwed up. Thanks for your patience and for taking your time to give me some attention. Do you believe there is such a thing as "destiny"?

Evidently, your destiny is to send me the entry on the left, mine to answer it here.




Adam and Eve

Originally Choose Their Destiny


(which is to have Free Will.)


Clip: http://www.jtoriginals.net/FreeWill.html

Sat, 16 Sep 2006



Ed Says: "I am open for ideas on how to distribute TTP on a wider level. As the work becomes more powerful, I envision some system of certifying Tribe leaders."

This is my suggestion for how to distribute TTP on a wider level: leverage the web via search engine optimization (SEO).

You don't do anything (ANYTHING!) to optimize your FAQ pages for Google, Yahoo, MSN.

For example, all the FAQ pages have the default FrontPage title "New Page 1". Now that is really funny!

You are starting at absolute zero in SEO terms.

You therefore have a HUGE opportunity to increase traffic (and grow powerful collaborative network effects to advance the work) via SEO.

If you want, I can provide you some SEO expertise in return for TTP workshop admittance.

The intent of performing SEO is to make the FAQ pages relevant for specific TTP-related searches people are making every day.

The result is a very findable page for searchers on specific TTP-related terms using Google, Yahoo, etc.

The SEO steps are HTML edits and text edits on FAQ pages.

For example, if you perform specific SEO steps on the page that this text appears on, the page can be found easily by folks searching the following terms: mirror neurons, group empathy, group relations, empirical process, somatic markers, field theory, affective regulation, Margaret Donaldson, proprioception, affective neuroscience, etc.

I believe there is little doubt that people searching these kinds of terms are implicitly interested in TTP, and can rapidly advance the work. If you are willing to implement SEO, the wider world can find TTP easily via a single FAQ-page entry point via Google.

I believe the result can be 10 to 20 times the web exposure TTP has right now, via higher search engine rank on TTP-related search terms.

If you like this idea, I'm willing to provide you with specific SEO advice, in trade, for admittance to a TTP workshop during the next 12 months.

Are you willing ?

FAQ currently receives somewhere in the neighborhood of a million page hits per year with absolutely no SEO optimization, banners or commercial ties that might compromise content.


I am open to you sending me a proposal for exactly what you propose to do, how often you would need to do it, how long it might take and how much you might like to charge for your service.



Sat, 16 Sep 2006




You demonstrate real commitment to advancing the work, via collaboration, by posting the Rocks pages. You open yourself up to ridicule. You love the work.

I attend a few Tribe meetings and enjoy them.
I invite a friend; he asks what to bring. I tell him 'willingness'. He brings it and gets real results at his very first meeting.

I wonder if stuck TTP participants exhibiting signature forms are really just unwilling. I wonder if the Rocks process actually attracts the unwilling, and becomes a venue for meta-drama about unwillingness.

I think Rocks might be an attempt to make TTP work for the incorrigible person, the unwilling, and others like them.

I think that focusing on figuring out how to trigger willingness is the best path. I wonder if the emerging H&R processes can trigger willingness.

In TTP and in the Rocks process we do not aim to "trigger" or otherwise influence willingness. 


I hold that such attempts are the source, rather than the cure for rocks.


In the rocks process, we are very careful to receive a declaration of willingness from the sender before we attempt to re-ignite his memories of painful events.




Pain Typically Attends

the Transfer of a Rock


and also the process of forgiving it.


The pain typically arises

when one person forces another

to experience something

he is unwilling to experience.


Before we apply the Rocks Process

we secure the willingness of the sender

to re-experience the pain.


Otherwise we risk

compounding the problem

rather than solving it.


Clip: http://www.bcysth.ca/photo_gallery/


Fri, 15 Sep 2006


The Rock is Off

Ed Says: If you are carrying a rock about a drama in which you express anger, you may find yourself feeling "chemistry" with and attracting people who have rocks that compliment yours.

Ed, it looks like the rock is off. Today I called the girl and I had an honest talk with her. I was able to express my "anger" and demand "logic" mildly and now things seem to be clear for both of us. Not the result I expected though.

The process of forgiving a rock typically entails substantial emotional work and the assistance of a tribe. 


The process you describe sounds like you are just following more of the drama in the "anger and logic" rock.



Fri, 15 Sep 2006


Forgiving Rocks

Dear Ed,

I am still feeling gratitude and awe for how you and the Incline Tribe are developing TTP. It takes courage to admit when something as effective as TTP has limits and to develop and test new growth technologies.


I appreciate that you now present a "cartography" of the process and encourage others to navigate it individually as it unfolds.

This is a report of some of my own "unfolding journeys" along the TTP map. Two weeks ago the Incline Tribe works as a team to help another member go through the rock process.


He discovers that he has a " I like to hurt women" rock. He is shocked but is unable to get rid of the rock. Presented with several simulated real-life encounters, his drama outcome is still the same. He feels despair and hopelessness The rest of the tribe huddles in the kitchen and comes up with a plan.


The despairing member is asked if he's willing to take the hot seat to deal with the issue. Soon he realizes that the tribe is about to put him through his worst nightmare (childhood memory).


He is willing and resists the attack with all his strength knocking some of us on our butts. It is an unrelenting process until he surrenders to the feeling. The process is possible only because of the his total willingness to go back to the pain and relive it. He is finally ready to forgive the 'hurt women" rock when he feels the full impact of his past behavior.

He later describes the experience akin to a "rape" where the attacker forces the victim to feel things the victim is unwilling to feel.


Simple words cannot convey the devastating feeling of the "attack". He is unwilling to continue inflicting that pain on those women presently in his life.

The next day, he makes a full commitment to his female partner. His behavior with her is open, honest and deeply caring. She reports feeling like the recipient of a miracle. Their relationship moves quickly to a deeper more satisfying level. They manifest joy.

I am writing this in the form of a serial because of its length. I am planning to write again to report on the continuing revelation of this work. You see, as our tribe moves through the new process, it rocks!

Thank you for your report.






The essential sin

is to force someone

to experience something

s/he is unwilling to experience.


During this process

the attacker may transmit a rock

to the victim.


The Rocks Process

returns the sender

to his memories of the event

and allows him to re-experience it

without taking the stone.



Clip: http://www.towson.edu/~lasher/Rape.htm

Fri, 15 Sep 2006


Does it with Mom

In my experience with two tribes, most people (80% is my guess) find TTP and Snapshots easy to learn, easy to put to practice, and a great help.

The new Rocks process seems a bit complicated. I question whether the average tribe member with no background in psychology would be able to pull off Transactional Analysis.

I hope you do not abandon good, old-fashioned, easy-to-learn, works-like-magic TTP.

With the regard to this remark, I don't think anybody has to abandon traditional TTP. I also would like to share how I view TTP and how I do it.

I don't have a Tribe and so I usually do it with my mother. We typically meet at a private place, usually a retired chapel in the country of my hometown, when I go to visit my family. She's very religious and so she likes to bring together her rosary beads and pray with me as she doesn't feel comfortable with tribal concepts.

Before meeting we both make wish lists, of things we want to achieve or "receive": professional, familiar or even spiritual "gifts". One at a time we both proclaim our intentions, share them with each other and also "offer" them to God. We do a mix of TTP and prayer / contemplation / meditation. If any k-notty feelings arise we also share them and pray, not trying to run away from or understand the experience.

From time to time we meet and review our intentions and current achievements and do it all over again.

As a lot of my goals are for the long range I cannot, up to now, effectively "measure" the results. Whatever I feel better and find more meaning, clarity and joy in my everyday life. I've also already "received" some minor "gifts". Thanks, God.

The bottom line is: I think that intention or "wish", sharing resources with a community and prayer are very important. They give me a sense of purpose for the whole process. I compare intention to the "system" I intend to follow. Then as I experience life sometimes I find myself stuck, sometimes I find myself moving, sometimes I feel internal tension or contraction, sometimes I feel harmony or a desire to expand. Then I wonder: what if I let go, if I surrender myself to this "process"? It must feel great.

Thank you for sharing your process.




A Domineering Mother


is likely to control her son

by making him worry

about her comfort


about processes that

might set him free.



Clip: http://www.variety.com/graphics/


Fri, 15 Sep 2006


Wants a Counter-Trend System

Dear Ed,

I am a dedicated trend follower, but like many of us I have tried to find a supplementary strategy that would smooth out the draw downs of trend following systems. During these non-trending periods, a counter-trend system might help smooth the equity curve. However I have back-tested every counter-trend system I have ever heard of, without any success. In your experience, is there such a thing as a good counter-trend system?

You might consider beginning your search with a definition of "good."

Thu, 14 Sep 2006

Wants a Catalog of Patterns

I agree with you that a free-form can get a mess, and your example is quite illustrative.

I notice that you have been quite effectively "teasing out" some k-notty feelings on FAQ readers and visitors, and that you also start several projects in your website that you don't finish or follow up. It looks like you're over-committing or trying different things so as to assess which works best. I also sense that the whole Tribe project is heavily dependent on your guidance.

With regard to the catalog of dramatic patterns, I feel it would be great if you with the help of other tribe leaders might categorize the most common and relevant ones, and post them on your site or even publish them. Out of hunch, I sense that these patterns are recurring, similar and universal.

You can make a catalog of chart patterns that has millions of entries, or you can simply follow trends.

Thu, 14 Sep 2006


Tinkering -- I agree

I agree with the person who wrote 'Tinkering'. In my experience with two tribes, most people (80% is my guess) find TTP and Snapshots easy to learn, easy to put to practice, and a great help.


The new Rocks process seems a bit complicated. I question whether the average tribe member with no background in psychology would be able to pull off Transactional Analysis.

I hope you do not abandon good, old-fashioned, easy-to-learn, works-like-magic TTP.

Thank you for checking in. 


I, too, still find TTP very effective. 


Rocks is a method to extend the scope of TTP in cases where the sender gets stuck with signature forms and wishes to move through them.


The process seems to require management by someone familiar with TTP, TA, NLP, and Hypnosis.




Even Good Vehicles


Can Get Stuck


Clip: http://lee.org/journal/journal%20010104-


Thu, 14 Sep 2006



Hi Ed,

At our last tribe meeting I talk to [Name] about the rocks process, I also re-read your essay several times. I have a wide range of feelings when thinking about this process: I feel confused, helpless, curious, fascinated and gripped.

I am wondering if I understand the Rocks model correctly. Our hat is the outward role we play in life. I am confused about this, when I read the first version of your essay I think that the hat is the drama we engage in. As it stands right now, do we choose our own hat? Is our hat a label covering up our rocks? Can we see what's on our own hat?

Our rocks determine the dramas we engage. This seems clear to me. Do the results in our lives reflect our rocks?

I feel a strong burning desire to be more. I want to learn more about the Rocks Process and I want to participate in it. Have you considered Rocks workshop?

Thank you for your commitment to this work.

We are still developing the Rocks process.  If you want to participate, you may apply to IVTT to help develop it with us. 


I consider this work to be a major breakthrough for the Trading Tribe and I expect to present a workshop on the methods.

Thu, 14 Sep 2006



Ed Says: Thank you for sharing your process. If you are carrying a rock about a drama in which you express anger, you may find yourself feeling "chemistry" with and attracting people who have rocks that compliment yours. Giving Up A Rock may be all the more difficult when you are already associating with others whose rocks fit yours.

Yes, right to the point. I have been flirting with a girl for a while. I don't understand her behavior. Sometimes I am under the impression she is very shy / timid / indecisive and is unable to move on to start a relationship with me.


Sometimes I am under the impression she isn't interested and / or is playing games with my feelings and is somehow unable to commit.


Sometimes I also think that she behaves quite strangely towards me: it's as if I am trying to communicate or have a relationship with a "rock" instead. Then I feel like giving up and moving on. Certainly, there is a lot of "chemistry" here and this is not the first time I get into this situation with these weird girls.





The Rock You Carry


Fit the Rock

your playmate carries



Clip: http://www.cs.rochester.edu/~nelson/courses/


Thu, 14 Sep 2006


Tinkering #2

Ed Says: “Rocks is a way to mend the tendency of some senders to get stuck sending and re-sending their signature form without making measurable progress.”

How do you define ‘measurable progress’?

Thank you for extending the discussion.  I don't have a rigorous definition for measurable progress.  I measure progress by the reactions the Tribe members share.




Shock and Awe


Some things, like measurable progress

show up in the faces

of your friends and associates.



Clip: http://www.995.ca/images/surprised.jpg

Thu, 14 Sep 2006


Anger and Logic

Ed Says: "Men who learn to communicate feelings of love, affection and caring for their spouses as well as communicating anger and logic find their relationships reaching much fuller levels of satisfaction."

As I draw from my own experience, I notice some if not a lot of women are particularly keen at teasing k-notty feelings about communicating anger and/or asserting oneself.


It looks like as though they even appreciate it, as though they need direction. Whatever, I typically get confused and "angry" with such a behavior and I don't like it.


I have been "monitoring" how I cope with situations (not only with women) where I have to assert myself and / or express anger and logic mildly. I have a history of difficulty in this area and I tend to go from one extreme to another.

Thank you for sharing your process.  If you are carrying a rock about a drama in which you express anger, you may find yourself feeling "chemistry" with and attracting people who have rocks that compliment yours.




Giving Up A Rock


may be all the more difficult

when you are already associating

with others whose rocks fit yours.


Clip: http://toyblog.typepad.com/lemon/


Thu, 14 Sep 2006


Wanting Recognition

Hi Ed,

The issue I bring to the hotseat is about seeking recognition / acknowledgement about doing such a fine job of advising people on how to trade markets, of being such a wonderful husband who slaves his backside off so my family is well provided for of being such an exemplary father who always is doing his best for his son and of being such a fine son who takes care of his aging mom even when his more able siblings do not.

I perceive I setup dramas (which at times are destructive to the relationship) with my need to be recognized / acknowledged. At the point when I sense I’m setting up these drama’s, I fail to look for / acknowledge my feelings at that.


In the hot seat I replay the scenarios in my head and wait for the feelings to come. They don’t. While I seem to be on track to my receivers, internally I find I myself stuck on a few feelings (burning face, tightness in head), no forms show up. It was like I just don’t have the energy to go through with it. I don’t seem to be progressing for (what seemed to me) a long time. Or at least the feelings that came, seemed ‘inadequate’. Clearly, those feelings are not hot. I am asked if I am willing to feel the feelings. I ask myself and honestly say I do. But when PM asks if I can crank up the feeling of ‘not feeling anything’, I look for any manifestations, don’t find any, and so refuse. This is a first. I’ve actively practiced TTP for 19 months, attended a workshop, never has a problem with bringing on the feelings.

I now have niggling doubts if I am incapable of strong feelings. Especially, in flash back. I also have an AHA that if I can’t feel, then I have a knot about feeling. Since knots manifest in dramas, a good way to find issues and associated feelings (since they don’t come on call) is to look for what drama’s I have running in life. This seems like a good way to break the catch 22 situation.

Except that I can't seem to find any dramas.

I don’t have feelings – so I have a knot about feeling feelings – knots manifest in dramas – I cant find dramas – now what? Just cruise?

Thanks for everything ED. I think you are doing a wonderful job with TTP.

Thank you for sharing your process. 


You seem to provide an example of the kinds of limitations people are encountering with TTP.  I address some of these issues in the Rocks article, above.


TTP provides an excellent forum in which people can manage anger, learn to unwind k-nots and express feelings, learn to listen to others, experience sending and receiving acknowledgment and allowing others to be themselves without having to fix them.


The issues that people are wrestling with seem to have roots in another area that I am calling a rock.  A k-not is an unwillingness to express an emotion.  A rock is an agreement to act out a mission, such as revenge. This agreement typically forms (you accept the rock) during an early childhood episode in which someone forces you to feel something you are unwilling to feel.  After you exhaust your nominal responses, such as rationality and defiance,  you enter a state of futility,  resignation and perhaps quiet sobbing.  During the creation of such a wound, you may also vow vengeance.  This creates a "killer" rock. 


Alternatively, you may feel the wound of  unbearable guilt and vow a life of repentance. and accept a "victim" rock.


Other rocks carry programming for people to be predators, teasers, perfectionists, etc.


Currently we are exploring ways to understand this process, including reliving the emotions surrounding the critical moments of accepting the rock.


We are also encouraging the sender to simulate life with and without the rock.  Typically the sender surrenders (forgives) the rock, grieves for a while and then finds his life astoundingly free.


I am not clear at this point how to convey instructions via FAQ for engaging this process.  I am not clear about the kinds of risks that people might engage by attempting these processes on their own.  I am, at this point, merely continuing to report developments in the Incline Village Trading Tribe.


In your case, I might wonder if you are, perhaps, carrying a rock from someone from your childhood whom you know has a tendency toward stoicism, hard work and personal sacrifice.


We begin the process by finding a stone that fits our hand and pocket, and then by carrying it around with us.  When we sense we are engaging the drama, we reach for the rock, and squeeze our feelings into it.  After several such squeezing the rock comes to symbolize our process and we bring it to a Tribe meeting as a focal point for the journey to locate and re-frame the critical incident that accounts for the primary choice to accept the rock.




The Soldier Rock


Invests the sender

with a mission to play by the rules

and to sacrifice himself

for the well-being of others.

Thu, 14 Sep 2006


Stocks in Historical Up-Trends Long Term


Your programming on the TT Chart Books is pretty cool.

I was looking at the Charts tonight and don’t understand how RFIL is in a Long Term Stocks in Historical Up-Trends list. See attached charts.

Long moving averages on the daily are basically flat and long moving averages on the weekly are down. A single thruster day seems to make it qualify for the long term trend listing today.

What is the definition of Short, Medium, and Long Term as used in the “Stocks in Historical Up-Trends:” area of TT Chart Books?

To fully understand the listing you would likely need the exact formulae and data I use.  I do not publish specifics about either.


In general, you might notice that for a long-term trend of any large time constant, t, there exists a one-day move of extent, s, that is sufficient to propel the stock into the strength listings.



Thu, 14 Sep 2006


Donchian System

Hello Ed,

My question is about the Donchian trading system shown on the charts page.

Were there any fees (such as the typical CTA 20% fee) taken into account? Or are the returns raw?

My guess is that the returns are raw. They are decent for a simple system. Perhaps it can be improved with optimization or higher bet size. I don't think any CTA would raise a lot of money with that kind of performance (drawdown vs. returns).

Also, would you mind telling how "Coal" is a strong stock sector? It has been going down for a while. Then again it depends on your time frame. All in all,


I am enjoying your site, especially the trading system related stuff. I find it eye opening.

The Donchian system provides a generic example of the kinds of performance profile you might expect with a long-term trend-following system.  It uses transaction "skid" as a proxy for both commissions and slippage.


Coal is a commodity-specific group that an associate suggests placing on the site.  Its inclusion does not imply strength or weakness.



Coal - Just Another Rock


Sometimes you find it

in your portfolio


and sometimes

in your stocking.



Clip: http://www.scsc.k12.ar.us/2000backeast/


Wed, 13 Sep 2006




Hi Ed,

I have read your essay and find a new perspective on drama interesting.

I would like to comment on the following statement:

Ed Says: “We do not develop skills that can prevent drama in the area of the k-notty feeling. Furthermore, in an attempt to experience our feelings, we may attract and entrain dramas in our lives that amplify the very feelings we have in k-nots. “

I agree that participation in TTP can amplify knotty feelings. A willingness to allow Fred and CM to communicate is like opening an emotional Pandora’s Box. Once the box is open we have to be willing to experience whatever feelings come out. I personally call the phenomena “the big retracement”, because after all the enthusiasm and quick gains TTP initially provides, a nasty pullback is on the way. I felt that things actually got far worse before they got better. I must say the retracement lasted over a year, but I persevered, and through consistent TTP and Breathwork, I came out the other side. It was tough work. I experienced feelings that pushed the limits of what I thought I might encounter. Deep and dark episodes. Raw anger. Self hatred. Despair.

I still find myself experiencing feelings that make me uncomfortable. However, I am able to experience them separate from the rest of my life. They do not spill over and create drama. That is not to say I am drama free, but I find myself moving rapidly in the direction of my intentions.

Like another contributor said “TTP is robust and simply works”. I cannot agree more. We spend 30, 40, or even 50 years creating and validating dramas, it seems reasonable that it might take a number of years to unravel such handiwork. Commitment and willingness are everything.

That aside, I find the addition of the “rock” makes much more sense to me, as I was somewhat confused before. Even today, I found myself feeling a certain way, and wondered what label would be on the rock associated with this feeling. At the very least, I see it as a useful way to create more focused entry points for TTP.

Thanks for all your efforts. To you I owe much.

We are now using Rocks to get the "retracement" time down from a year or two to a week or two.




Pandora Opens Her Box

 and releases misfortune on mankind.


Plague, sorrow, poverty, crime,

despair, greed, etc. everything except elpis,

from the Greek, Ελπις,

meaning hope or anticipation of misfortune.


Some scholars equate the vessel

with Pandora's womanhood.


In modern times,

Pandora's Box is metaphor

for the surprising consequences

of technical and scientific development.


Clip: http://www.howarddavidjohnson.com/


Wed, 13 Sep 2006



I see a few traders who constantly tinker with their trading system, they can’t stick to simple basic rules.

It almost looks like what you do with TTP.

I practice TTP, I send, I receive, I feel my feelings, I have aha’s, and I become a better trader. That’s it.


Thank you for sharing your insight. 


I agree, if it ain't broke, it don't need mending.  If it is broke, get a tinker.


Rocks is a way to mend the tendency of some senders to get stuck sending and re-sending their signature form without making measurable progress.




A Tinker


is formerly a person,

traditionally a Gypsy

who travels from place to place

mending pots and kettles

and other metal utensils

as a way to earn a living.





Date: Wed, 13 Sep


Sent in Support of your Further Success


Good to talk with you today.

The [City] Trading Tribe met tonight at my place. A good meeting. Several of the members, including myself, exploring new forms. I tired various things including: encouraging a repeated role play, accessing both the familiar feeling / form and the positive feeling / form they are unwilling to feel and going for the 'don't know' feeling.

In our telephone conversation I mentioned some Transactional Analysis resources that might speed up clarifying certain distinctions you are making. A good summary of TA is "Transactional Analysis" by Stan Woollams. I studied with his school of TA and and vouch for the accuracy of the text. I found one copy at





A more therapy oriented book is "Transactional Analysis After Eric Berne: Teachings and Practices of Three TA Schools." This one is pricier and it does contain more detail on Re-decision Therapy by Goulding. There is one copy at





Of course, then there's the reissue of the Goulding's own book "Changing Lives Through Re-Decision Therapy" You can view a bit of it on-line. I actually do not own this one as I was an advocate of 'Mini-Script' Theory at the time.





And you may simply want to continue on your own path of discovery. It has certainly served you well. For the moment, I would ignore my comments on Re-Imprinting. Any web reference to it will be far too cognitive and too conscious mind. The Re-Parenting strategies of TA are closer to your approach.

Thank you for your support and guidance.




Good Friends Help Each Other


stay on the path.



Clip: http://www.galleryone.com/images/


Tue, 12 Sep 2006




Ed Says: Early TTP in which we use a healing field of acknowledgment to encourage the appearance and disappearance of forms is still an essential part of the work.

You might consider carrying a rock around with you in your pocket. Whenever you find yourself in one of your recurring dramas involving frustration or wanting to smash something, reach for the rock and squeeze your feelings into it. After a few days, you might try putting a label on the rock that characterizes your role in the drama.

Ed, I am following your draft work on the Rocks Process and I wish to give some feedback. I feel that TTP is "evolving" in the right direction as it starts to address issues which are essential to most people.

I think that the rocks technique is great in the sense that it might provide a rough conscious model through which the sender can identify their role and stay there with the key feelings when the dramatic situation arises. I think that you might benefit from your experience with the Incline Village tribe and FAQ and make rough models of the most common dramatic patterns in trading or in life.

The intentional communities can support the sender by creating a "receptive" environment in which the sender feels encouraged to admit and share his/her dramatic situation and talk about what they think their roles are. Then usual TTP follows, i.e., the community encourages the sender to stay there with the key feelings.

I've also always had this idea in my mind: why not evolve FAQ or create a separate forum so that other "qualified" receivers might also participate in answering the questions?


I mean, FAQ is a great introductory vehicle to people that otherwise might be unable to attend a tribe or just have some problem with starting or joining a tribe (like fear of intimacy, etc.) or otherwise need anonymity. Although I think you're doing a great job why not start giving the Tribe a life of its own?

I like your idea of a catalog of dramatic patterns.


Contributors may answer questions and / or point out problems with my answers.


Creating a free-form forum (one without adult supervision)  is generally an exercise in watching a chat room seek its lowest level. 


I am open for ideas on how to distribute TTP on a wider level.  As the work becomes more powerful, I envision some system of certifying Tribe leaders.




"Hi, You sound great.

How old are you

and what to you like doing

after school."




"I am 14

and a bit of a fitness fanatic.

I often go power lifting

after school."



Clip: http://www.ulyssesgoldcoast.com/chat%20room%20secrets.jpg

Tue, 12 Sep 2006


Getting Your Rocks Off

The Rocks article looks really good - the rocks help move the model along. I can't read what is written on the illustrating rock. Is is treasure or teaser or what?


I really like the practice of carrying the rock and squeezing the drama feelings into it and bringing the rock to tribe.


It solves the questions I have about how to move tribe members into the hat process.

Is TTP becoming a way to "get your rocks off"?

I think of it as getting some of the rocks out ... of our heads.  At that point we might be able to concentrate on wearing a hats that proclaim our intentions to engage right livelihood.




TTP Model of The Sender



Clip: http://www.spindelvisions.com/


Tue, 12 Sep 2006


Soldiers and Teasers


Ed Says: you might find yourself assuming the role of soldier, or teaser, or victim or having to be perfect or unable to commit.

As long as you are carrying the rock you attract the drama.

Could you elaborate a bit more on the roles of soldier and teaser? Thanks.

The generic labels are for illustration.  An actual rock becomes full of your own specific and unique drama and its label means something very special just to you.




In general,

 a soldier carries out orders

and shows no feelings

and sacrifices himself for others.



Sometimes, a Teaser promises something

and then does not deliver it.

Then again, sometimes not.


Tue, 12 Sep 2006


Short term -vs- long term (part 2)

Hi Ed,

Back on Aug 14 I wrote the following post:

You've written often about the advantages of longer term over short term trading systems.

The primary advantage, at least that I've seen you write about, is the lower transaction costs associated with lower trading frequency.

Are there, in your opinion, other advantages associated with longer term systems versus short term? If so would you please elaborate.

To which, Ed Says
As trading frequency increases, the gain per trade decreases while the transaction costs remain constant - so the ratio deteriorates.

Transaction costs are a big factor in day-trading systems.

People may like day trading for the sense of urgency and distraction (from experiencing feelings) it provides.

I have some follow-up comment and a question:
I never said anything about a day-trading system, only a comparison of advantages/disadvantages of systems based on their trade duration.

So, day-trading systems excluded, other than lower transaction costs, do you believe there are other advantages of systems with a longer trade duration over those with a shorter trade duration? If so, would you please elaborate.

You can answer such questions by running back-test simulations to optimize your system with respect to trade duration and bet size.





Goldilocks Runs Some Tests


and finds some are too small,

some are too large

and some are just right.



Clip: http://bootyfull.net/store/images/


Mon, 11 Sep 2006


What's Under Your Hat?

Hi Ed,

I read through "Rocks" several times this weekend. If you had not talked me though it, I don't know what sense I could have made of it. There are several simple to fix items - like Fred and Ted are just too similar in their sound, and Emo the Duck mixes several ideas. I think it would be better to use colored paper or shapes than actual objects. Then there is the introduction of new terms and personnel. The 'dealer' is mentioned several times, but the role isn't described in a way that is clear to me. I think I know what you mean when you talk about building a simulation because I know how rigorous you are about that. This does not come through in current description and the cute objects distract.

It sounds to me like you are closing in on how specific dramas are generated. This is very cool. I suggest going for a more rigorous description now and making it user friendly later. There are several transforms that are mysterious to me. For example, how does what Fred pumps get changed into what Emo carries? That's a huge transformation.

Thank you for your feedback.  The current version now incorporates many of your insightful suggestions.




Emo The Duck


A cute, non-essential complication.