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October 11-20, 2007


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Note: The intention of inclusion of charts in FAQ is to illustrate trading principles - The appearance of a chart does not imply any kind of indication or recommendation to buy, sell, hold or stay out of any positions.




(Quotes from Ed in Red)


Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007


Optical Illusions


Here is a link to some good ones:




Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007


Kelly and Uncle

Hi Ed,

I would like to make a contribution to the debate on risk management.

The Kelly formula as a starting point for optimal risk management, as your site highlights

I would like to recommend and justify instead FRACTIONAL Kelly. Fractional Kelly is the Kelly percentage multiplied (scaled down) by a value k<1.

The reason Fractional Kelly is preferable is:

(a) Straight Kelly can be a rollercoaster ride from the start. And unlucky ones can soon hit their Uncle Point. Fractional Kelly allows us to lower the probability of hitting uncle point and therefore stay in the game. Section 2 'Drawdown formulae' of this resource http://www.bjmath.com/bjmath/

proport/riskpaper1.pdf  show how to calculate an optimal k (fraction)

(b) Often we learn our return odds and probability of success in real time. Even with a back tested system. In a model with "learning" we must always have factored in the possibility that our system is a dud and should not be played. It is my intuition that when we have a distribution of 'beliefs' regarding our system it will be better to play safer than if we knew for sure. Given this, fractional Kelly will be preferable to straight Kelly. I don't believe a model with learning has been developed yet.

Hope this makes sense.

The Uncle Point is not a mathematical number - it is an emotional response to loss.


You are unlikely to change your emotional response by tinkering with a formula.

Thu, 18 Oct 2007


TTP Workshop


Let me begin by saying that I have just recently been introduced to the Trading Tribe, so forgive me if my questions do not make sense.

I have never participated in a TTP, so in preparation I have been thinking about what forms/k-nots I have that I would like to work on this weekend. Problem is, I am having a hard time coming up with any, allow me to explain.

While in college I was arrested ... and subsequently spent a year in jail when I was 20 years old. While being in jail was obviously a very unpleasant experience, I am grateful that it happened because of the person it has made me. As long as I have my freedom and health, I am a happy camper. I am in a constant state of bliss, if I ever veer slightly from that state, all I need to do is think of jail for a moment and that I am no longer there, and I am immediately happy again. I do not sweat the small stuff, I am happy to be alive, and I relish every breath.

In addition to that whole experience, I have an awesome life. I am young (28), in the best shape of my life, my net worth is making all time highs, I winter in Florida, I have many beautiful female friends, I could go on and on ...

Every passing day, it seems like my life just gets better and better. I sometimes pinch myself cause it seems to good to be true.

I really have to stretch to think of things that bother me, all I can come up with is these 2:

1. Via something I cannot control, I lose my good health. Things like cancer, car accident, etc.

2. Everything seems to be always going my way, this trend cannot continue forever. Its like my life is in a huge bull market and I am kinda wondering if its a bubble.

I feel like I am very in tune with my subconscious mind (Fred), and that I actually do listen to Fred. Any insights?

I also have a question about the snapshot. I found it interesting when reading the FAQ that some people really had to think hard about their snapshot. I have had a snapshot for years, and it is pretty specific. I am sitting on the beach of a deserted island ... in a comfortable chair with the sun setting in the distance. My ... yacht is anchored a few hundred feet away. My two girlfriends are preparing me dinner on the boat while I surf the web and read the news. I could get more specific, but you get the idea. Basically boating around paradise in luxury, with a satellite internet connection so that I can trade from anywhere my boat takes me. What does it say about me that I have already had a snapshot for so long?

You might consider taking your feelings about <intimacy> and <objectifying women> to Tribe.

Thu, 18 Oct 2007


Workshop Preparation

Snapshot Clicks In ... Living in the Now

Positive Intention of Jealousy

Dear Ed:

I believe I am experiencing the power of my Snapshot.


I now have a tremendous sense of urgency about living my life to the fullest. In the past, I believe time has no limits and I use waiting as my way of making decisions. In the past, I wait to see if someone will commit to me and if I will commit to them.


In the past, I wait to see if my client is a good fit. In the past, I wait to see if I might be happy. In the past, this list goes on and on, and happiness always seems to be something I'm waiting for out in some future time and place. I now recall spending years and years waiting for my life to begin.

Well, today, I see that all I have is Now. And, funny thing, I begin focusing on my Snapshot, and life suddenly seems so much more simple and clear. And, funny thing, I begin focusing on my Snapshot, and situations begin presenting themselves to help me see what is important in my life.

I am finding my Snapshot to be an empowering process. I am now discovering the positive intentions of some feelings. Feelings like jealousy. In the past, feeling jealous hurts and I avoid it at all costs. By waiting for this feeling of jealousy to pass, I end up waiting until I am unable to feel at all. I end up creating drama in my life that not only hurts me, but hurts others very deeply.

Now, I see feeling jealous helps me define what I want and how to protect it. I now see feeling my feelings of jealousy may help me find out who can stand the heat in the kitchen with me.

I look forward to the Workshop and I commit fully to experiencing my process and helping others experience theirs.

Thank you for sharing your process.



Thu, 18 Oct 2007


Associate Program: Learning to Trade


I am back to almost breakeven on my yen trade. I enter another DJ trade with the following order:

I feel a little anxiety around entering into the DJ trade, but my indicators say that I can enter here and if it goes my way, I make $5-6k per contract. If not, then I lose $600 per contract. A possible 10 to 1.


My anxiety is around having lost on 4 previous DJ trades. I know it is better to stay in the present moment of now and enter trades with no memory so that is what I am trying to do.


Dow Jones:

October 17th: GTD Sell Limit 1 Contract Dec07 Dow Jones mini (YM) at 13940.
Then, GTC Buy Stop 1 Contract Dec 07 Dow Jones mini YM at 14060.
Risk of 120 times $5 equals $600.

Here is my current position:


GTD Sell Market 1 Contract Dec 07 Yen (6J).
Fill at 8643.
GTC Buy Stop 1 Contract Dec 07 Yen (6J) at 8777.
Risk of 134 times $12.50 equals $1675.

I do not detect a consistent system here - other than FPS, the Fred Playground System. 


You might consider specifying your system. see previous.


For example, I wonder what "indicators" are talking to you, that predict gain and loss of 10:1.  I wonder what these indicators say on other days, and these indicators actually get you 10:1.


I am having trouble tracking your trade / order log without the dates and times of all orders and executions.


I do not see how you derive the price on the sell at limit order above the DJ market.



Wed, 17 Oct 2007


Staying Afloat

see Mon, 15 Oct 2007 Nose Above Water



Ed Says: Keeping your nose above the water can be
... a matter of survival ...
... a natural posture ...
... or recreation.

Very insightful, Ed. I combine those forms in the attached picture where I float on my back enjoying a moment’s repose before swimming a haystack on the Colorado River. (backup kayak rescue team not shown)





I see you have deep kinesthetic knowledge about going with the flow.

Wed, 17 Oct 2007


Workshop Outcomes



 My workshop outcomes are:

1 - I have the beginnings of understanding the TTP process so that I can fit it into my model of how things work and use it.


Feelings: compelled to learn --- curiosity


2 - I am compounding my net worth at @20% for next 3 years to meet my 2010 year end net worth goals.


Feelings: good challenge, stuck, can I take the necessary risk.


3 - I am meeting my fitness goal of losing 2 lbs per week and a resumption of my favorite activity -climbing.


Feelings: wonder why I don't do what I know how to do - Frustration

Thank you for sharing your process.


You might consider:


1. Defining exactly use you have in mind.


2. Defining exactly how much risk you can take.


3. Setting your goal as an end point rather than as a process.  You describe a movie, not a snapshot.  Note: At a goal rate of 2 pounds per week, you disappear entirely after N weeks, where


N = (Current Weight) / (2 pounds/week).

Wed, 17 Oct 2007


Associate Program: Learning to Trade

see previous: Looking to Short Dow Jones


I do not get my Dow Jones order entered in time and thus do not get a fill. The yen is my only current position.


I am feeling kind of stupid for having not monitored and set up orders to reenter the Crude and Gold positions. I am beating myself up some for not having paid better attention.

Thank you for sharing your process.


Missing moves is consistent with a seat-of-the-pants, low-discipline, short-term approach. 


You seem to be trading on a variation of the Fred Playground system.


Your real intention might be to be to find ways to miss out on things so you can justify feeling stupid and beat up on your self.


You might consider taking your feelings about <your father calling you stupid> to Tribe.  Note: see Spanking, below.




The Price of Stupidity is High


The price of being unwilling

to experience the feelings

of being stupid

is even higher.



Clip: http://www.pamba.thinkhost.com/


Wed, 17 Oct 2007




During my childhood, my parents spank me as a form of discipline. I have two sons and the oldest is almost two years old.


My oldest son climbs on chairs to get to items in the center of the kitchen table. I believe this behavior is dangerous. He plays with the kitchen trash can. I believe this behavior is unhealthy and can make him sick. He tries to pull a lamp off the end table in the family room. I believe this behavior is dangerous. I prefer he not do those things.


I believe that if I spank him for doing those things, he learns to hit others when their behavior is not what he prefers.


What might some alternatives be for me to use so my son avoids what I believe is dangerous and unhealthy behavior?

Thank you.

When you spank a child to the extent you excite his fear of survival, the child, seeing he cannot stop the beating, frantically searches for a way to medicate his fear.


If the father is the beater, the child typically  copies mom's responses and installs a medicinal rock with actions such as:

Avoid contact with Dad. 

Shut down my feelings. 

Wait until Dad is not around.

Do stupid things for Dad's attention.

As you can see by scanning FAQ, such medicinal behavior entrains relationship gridlock and prevents experiencing intimacy and joy.


Some other actions you might bring are:

Tell your kids about your fears.


Ask them what they are trying to accomplish.


Show them how to fall safely.


Play "spin around and get dizzy and fall down" with them.


Show them how to use matches safely.


Show them how to play with animals safely.


Show them how to tell if something is poison.

You might also consider taking your feelings about <your sons hurting themselves> to Tribe.




Gravity is an Excellent Teacher


It is consistent

and it does not attempt

to prevent you from

experiencing life


in order to medicate

its own feelings.



Clip: http://www.losethetrainingwheels.org/


Wed, 17 Oct 2007


Stock Market Value

see previous: Black Monday




If the concerns about sub-prime, war, oil and the dollar have any validity, how come the stock market is near the highs?



Trend Traders do not follow reasons; they follow trends.


A couple trends you might consider are the gold/dollar ratio and the Dow/gold ratio.




December 2007 Gold Futures





Dow Jones, in Ounces of Gold


Currently, with the Dow at about 14065

and with gold at about 765,

the Dow buys about 19 ounces of gold.


This represents about a 57% decline

from the highs in mid-1999

and a 1900% increase

from the lows in early 1980.



Clip: http://www.usgold.com/templates/


Wed, 17 Oct 2007


Dealing With Mother

see previous: Nose Above Water

Hi Ed -

Here’s Part 2 of my workshop prep.

I say: My outcomes for the October workshop are:

2. I can help and relate to others without getting tangled in drama.

Ed Says: You might consider being very specific - and noticing what feelings come up for you about being specific about what you want.

Specify one existing relationship tangle and how you would prefer that relationship to operate.

I think I get the biggest benefit by improving my relationship with my mother.


I state my issues in de-tangled form:

I accept that my mother’s emotions may not be to my liking.

I accept that my emotions may not be to my mother’s liking.

We acknowledge and resolve conflicts promptly.

I define how much help I am willing to give my mother, communicate my commitment, and stick to it.

My mother understands how much I am willing to help her.

My mother makes other arrangements if she wants more than I can give.

My mother and I support each other in additional relationships.

We do not hold each other to impossible standards. I define what I want from her.

We give each other more compliments than criticism.

We remember to laugh and have some fun.


My feelings as I specify:

Guilt at being selfish

Fear of taking on too much


Want freedom

Want to do the right thing (and do the thing right)

Chagrin that many issues lay at my doorstep


I set this list aside, visit my mother and feel unusually kindly towards her. Our relationship changes for the better (after some initial fireworks) since we both read the Trading Tribe book and I join a tribe. Or we’re both on our best behavior before the workshop – ha, ha!

Next up … I focus on rocks process.

Thanks for your on-going help.

Thank you for sharing your process.




Mother and Daughter


Early on,

the mother takes care

of the child.


Later on,

the roles reverse.


In a medicinal relationship

mother and daughter

try to control each other

and they complain about

each other's manipulations.


In a pro-active relationship

they accept each other

in being the way they are

and the way they are not

and they discover ways

to support each other.


If either the daughter or the mother

replaces her medicinal rock

with a pro-active rock,

the gridlock loosens

and the relationship becomes

pro-active and growthful.


They both come to say,

from the heart,


"I accept you fully,

including the part of you

that does not accept me."



Clip: http://www.mlasouthwest.org.uk/


Tue, 16 Oct 2007

More Feelings About My Snapshot
see previous: Snapshot Gets Clearer

Hi Ed:

Ed Says: "You might notice what feelings come up at the thought of actually manifesting your snapshot."

It takes me several hours just to compose the few sentences of my Snapshot. I begin in the early morning hours ... leave to take care of clients ... and return to write ... after hours of driving and reflecting.


In my process, my feelings include regret, sadness, guilt, fear, loss, and shame. My body is tense and I feel a hollow spot deep behind my chest cavity. It seems like a wall forms that I scale (in my mind) just to write the words (of my Snapshot).


To scale the "real" wall, I know I need the help of a Tribe.


I feel happy as my skin actually pulses to know that I will soon be at the Workshop amongst others who will validate and help me. I am writing this after I have many hours to continue to work through my process. As I think back, I recall as I write my Snapshot that I feel I am too old for giving birth to children and this intensifies my feelings of general sadness, as I subscribe to your writings that family is the essential crucible.


It seems being so in tune with FAQ helps as I read the Monday, October 8, FAQ post (and article) about Victor Niederhoffer, which mentions that the mother of his 1 1/2-year-old son is 53. I am the same age she gave birth at, how wonderful, imagine! (Not that I like how Victor treats the property ... love ... of this relationship.)

Otherwise, I am still going back in time and remembering. I am also reading so many posts about the Rocks Process.


I am now spending time thinking about the person who passes the medication to me. I have so many protective feelings for her. Yet, I have feelings of distain and disgust for my provoker. I am still on this side of the wall. It is a very tall wall.

Thank you for helping me find the courage to push on. I have many miles to go. I am finding I can place some feelings on my emotional dashboard. I need help with others.

I truly have no idea where these words come from. In spurts, they just keep coming.

Thank you for sharing your process.


In the Rocks Process, the event of forgiving the rock (returning it to the donor) tends to discharge feelings about both the rock donor and the provoker.


The Rocks Process makes a clear distinction between the people carrying the rocks and the rocks that they carry.


At the end of the process, the entire Tribe typically sees how the sender's medicinal rock encourages provokers while the new pro-active rock discourages them.




In Scaling Walls

and in the TTP Rocks Process ...




a good support team is essential.


The DIM (Do It Myself) Process

is, by comparison,

 risky and ineffective.








Tue, 16 Oct 2007


Identifying  the Rock Donor

see previous V-1.02

Dear Trader Ed,

I did a lot of crying, feeling miserable, getting a headache yesterday. After getting mad at my mother namely, I have to mention.

Tried to find the magic handle, something that you cut through with a sword and then things begin to change.

One handle is definitely that I am also looking for somebody who "allows" me to have fun and follow my own right livelihood (overrule of operating program that I have to be "less"). Next one who needs an allowance so as to say.

Relatives following V1.02: grandmother, mother & brother, uncle. Grandfather, father, aunt and me being more like victimized because V1.02 creates a lot of frustration and you have to victimize somebody to "feel better".

I couldn't use V1.02 as a kid. V1.02 starts to operate when you try to engage yourself in a relationship and get kids.

As a kid I couldn't develop any idea what I want to do or don't want to do. Everything was regulated (Food: what and how much, Dress: what). I never had a choice. It was more like, either you wear this trouser or I am going to ... you. Means: I had a REAL problem in school other kids wearing fashionable things and I wore knitted dresses knit by my grandmother. What a ...

At the age of six I realized that I am living in a very rigid system, bound to be a housewife and as such being not respected in family and society. It was all over the place even in TV, where you saw Bavarian politicians talking. Society was like that in Catholic Bavaria in the Sixties. Very rigid, no choices existed, neither for women nor for men, actually.

So I decided that I want to make a kick start and jump from being a child directly to being an old woman with no duties like my grandmother on my father's side (This grandmother had no influence in the family, I just saw her and wanted her life because she looked more like having fun as the other ones).

Via "trading" I landed on the other side and start to realize that being a retiree is somewhat frustrating and unfulfilling when you are just 42 years old.

Fine tuning was done by my father. His ideas: (1) Be a boy and earn a lot of money. Money heals all wounds. (2) If somebody is getting on your nerves just be not there. Be somewhere else. (3) If you have to be there just "pass out". (4) Reading all day long helps not to feel feelings. (5) Dito drinking, eating.

In supporting my father my mother always said: no boyfriend, no problem. Look at all those girls. They have illegitimate kids, divorces, no jobs and no support. You better study and make a career in an office (and don't follow V1.02).


She actually wanted to save me from being a housewife and sacrifice my life to somebody else.

From my teenage years onwards I felt very much both programs operating: V1.02 and fatherly idea of making money and medicating feelings with it (supported by my mother - career in an office). I felt very disoriented.

I am not sure whether V1.02 is actually still working. Hints are:
(1) Men look like potential abusers for me.
(2) In my dream of having a kid it is me, who takes care of the kid. I realize I will get rid of the father, if a kid arrives (not to come under V1.02, I suspicion.)

To my grandmother, aunt and mother V1.02 did the following: They all gave up some parts of their right livelihood (studying music / studying law / singing, painting and modeling) to work in meaningless jobs (housemaid (???) / clerk / seamstress (??? - WHAT HAPPENED) and married and devoted their WHOLE life to man and kids. Their was nothing left for themselves.

I also started with meaningless jobs, waiting for somebody to marry me till I realized that to prevent frustration and mobbing I have to get the best job I can. Didn't really want to marry either, not to fall under V1.02.

So I did some sort of hibernating supported by trading, some friends, cats and plants.

Man, what BS and I am not 100 Percent sure whether this is the right track.

Just happy that youth is over.

Thank you for sharing your process.


Your rock appears to come from your father. It instructs you how to medicate the feelings of growing up in your family.


You might consider coming up with a list of effective actions you might teach to a child - so that the child could cope successfully with people such as your parents.


This list can eventually become the basis for a new rock for you. 


You can then go through a process of forgiving (giving back) the rock to your father - and accepting the pro-active rock. 


The idea is for you to respond to your emotions, automatically, according the the list of effective actions.




Installation of a Medicinal Rock


requires a provoker

to provoke the feeling,

a family culture

to make the feeling "bad"

and a rock donor

to model the medicinal behavior.


The Rocks Process

uses role playing

to provoke the feeling,

Tribal encouragement

to view the feeling's positive intention

and a pro-active rock

to replace the medicinal one.



Clip: http://www.magazine.ucla.edu/


Tue, 16 Oct 2007


Wants a Money Manager



My direct question would be, would you manage what little money I have left to risk? But I doubt you would even respond to that.

I thought I was a trader, or at least could become a good part time trader by working hard. I worked long hours in a job that I hated and believed that it was the source of my frustration. It took me many years to make a career change to a great new job that affords me a lot more free time to pursue the things that I enjoy. It has improved my life in all aspects with the exception of managing money.


I have come to the conclusion that I don’t even know what I don’t know, any amount of time spent training myself to trade results in my same self sabotage and in the end, I know you would say that I am getting what I want out of the markets. I have attempted to get closer to the true root source of my anguish and believe that there is some type of guilt that keeps me from reaching a higher capacity but I am either too frightened, embarrassed or proud to dig deeper and on the surface I feel that I am truly a normal person. This does not help me to understand myself.

I am fortunate that I have built the rest of my life on a solid foundation, I have an incredible family and we live in a vastly rewarding rural mountain town. My wife has been more than understanding and even though I wasted years of our lives being a complete Jackass, coming home grumpy and tired from my crappy job, she accepts & loves me and she even stood by me while I lost all of our money chasing my dreams.

To stop trading makes me feel like I am quitter – but either way it is killing me. I want to start over but I don’t know how to begin.

You might consider taking your feelings about <guilt - fear - embarrassment>, <reaching capacity> and <losing money> to Tribe.


When you develop the willingness to experience these feelings, you might find your abilities to pick stocks and to enroll good stock pickers improve.


If you medicate your feelings by losing money, hiring a money manager is not likely to change your results.


For example, you might: (1) Treat the manager like a stock, buying and selling his fund at Fredian moments. (2) Try to sabotage the manager. (3) Find some other way to lose money.





Changing Your Basic Nature


is likely to involve

confronting the expectations

of family and friends.



Clip: http://www.juniata.edu/gifts/parents.html

Tue, 16 Oct 2007


Black Monday



Barron's Magazine has a cover story about stock market crashes.


Black Monday
20 Years Later Can It Happen Again?

IT'S FITTING THAT AS THE 20TH anniversary of the ferocious 1987 stock-market crash approaches, most major U.S. equity averages are at or near record levels, and many markets in the developing world at boiling points. – The prevailing view on Wall Street is that the monumental drop on Oct. 19, 1987, when the Dow Jones Industrial Average plunged 508 points – 22.6% -- on then-record volume, won't be repeated. There's good reason for the widespread optimism. But, then again, Wall Street seemingly is always optimistic until something goes terribly wrong. Not that the bulls don't have some good arguments. The Dow's drop on Oct. 19, 1987, was unprecedented, and hasn't come close to being equaled since then.

The largest percentage decline in the current decade was 7.1% on Sept. 17, 2001, and the biggest drop in the past two years was 3.3% on Feb. 27, 2007.


Even the historic 1929 crash, while deeper, broader and longer-lasting, didn't produce a one-day downdraft as vicious as 1987 did.


The Great Crash included a 12.8% one-day loss on Oct. 28, 1929, followed by an 11.7% slide the following day and one of 9.9% on Nov. 6. So, the 22.6% drop 20 years ago was truly a statistical outlier.



The appearance of a "scary magazine cover" may indicate some bearish discount already in the market.


I don't see a lot of "market going to the moon" magazine covers or feature articles.


Meaningful declines generally proceed from a base of euphoria, ebullience and invincibility, not from pessimism and worry.


Today we have wide concern about the war, the sub-prime situation, the dollar and the price of energy.


My reading of the cover is that the Monday does not appear so black; it appears curiously red; the black is in the background.












seem to come

in an assortment

of flavors and colors.

Tue, 16 Oct 2007


Associate Program: Learning to Trade

Short Yen and Looking to Short Dow Jones


I am short Japanese Yen futures and I am entering a stop order below the market to sell Dow Jones futures short.

You might consider defining the method you are using that picks your two trades out of a universe of possibilities.

Tue, 16 Oct 2007


Snapshot Confusion




I am not sure I understand the snapshot correctly.

Snapshot: I own and live in a beautiful house at the beach.

I took the Snapshot Process from...

1. The Global Vision - a picture. Two floors, a garden with coloreful flowers, a view of the ocean. The house is white. The sound of waves, the taste of solt, the smell of flowers.

2. The short-term commitment - to accomplish something by the next meeting. Get a picuture of various houses.

3. Critical Feedback - from other Tribe members.

4. Revision - of the snapshot. ??

5. Re-presentation of the snapshot. ??

6. Championing of the snapshot by others. ??

Thank you.

You might consider taking your feelings about <doing things correctly> to Tribe.

Tue, 16 Oct 2007


Embarrassment Running Life

Dear Mr. Seykota,

Thank you for your suggestions. I am tracking the brownstone during family Tribing. First is in my through then memories surface.

I am a young boy. I am playing with a friend. We are throwing stones in a puddle. The friend missed it and hit my head instead. It hurts and I am bleeding, but I do not want others to know about the accident and the pain I am feeling. I am embarrassed, ashamed for the pain. I do not want others to think about me as the little, poor unlucky guy I am. In effect, my brother and my father just died and everybody knows about it in the village. Poor little guy, everything bad happens to him are some of the comments. First, his brother died, then his father and now that large stone. General attention is on me. I do not like it, I want to avoid it. I want to escape the pity. I want to avoid feeling being the poor, unlucky guy again and again.

Those feelings of embarrassment, shame, guilt have run may life somehow. I wanted to avoid failure because I did not want others to associate me with the poor, little unlucky guy I was ... I am. When I see some people failing in life, I first feel embarrassed for him / her. Then, I feel empathy for them and if possible help them out. One way to avoid failure is not to put very much effort into things I do. If I do not put much effort, if I do not participate fully, I would not be associated with failure. Of course, what is missing is giving 1000% of my self and see what happens. It has happened in jobs and in relationships. As an example, I lost a job and was so embarrassed and afraid others knew about it that I practically bared myself inside my house.

Not all the fields of endeavors are the same though. As an example, when I want to meet a woman (now I am married) I do it naturally. I accept the fact that somebody might be interested and others might not. The desire to know her is stronger than the fear of failure. I think about the opportunities I might loose if I do not act. In trading, I take all the losses by always placing a stop-loss as soon as I place an order. I accept losses naturally as part the game of trading. Or, to paraphrase one of your thoughts, I breath in as much as a breath out. What stands between me and financial prosperity? There are deeper issues. I will post them as they flow.

I had a dream last night. I was climbing on an ancient house, 1700/1800, with very solid basements with strong concrete ..on earth. It did not have any walls though and needed a full restauration. Like the beatuful house in front had.

Thank you again.

Your embarrassment may not be running your life.  More likely, it is your unwillingness to experience embarrassment that is running your life.


You may also have a "medicinal rock" or response pattern, that medicates your feeling - rather than responding to it pro-actively.


The boy who throws the rock is the provoker - the role model who shows you how to respond to your emotions is the rock donor.


In the rock process we forgive the medicinal rock back to the donor and implement a pro-active rock.




The Person Who Throws The Stone


might not be the person

who donates the rock.



Clip: http://www.tribuneindia.com/2006/


Tue, 16 Oct 2007


Wants Ed's Thoughts on Money Management


Hello Ed,


I’ve read your interview in Market Wizards a number of times and have found it extremely valuable. I was wondering if there were any other places in which you had put down your thoughts on mindset, money management, and method in more detail.

See the link to Trading Tribe Book, above.

Mon, 15 Oct 2007


Submits to Anger

Hi Ed,

I am writing today for I now feel compelled to let out some feelings that I never share, I just do not! This is centered on childhood experiences that I would “label” abuse.


I feel very hesitant and nervous right now about sharing this, what will people think of me? I feel ashamed. Also, I feel fear about going to a tribe because I will have to get to these events of childhood.


So, before I write about the TT book, or the system tests, or I go to tribe, or whatever, I all of a sudden got this meaningful urge to purge. Words cannot express how difficult this is for me.

I am totally associated with a movie of the event. I am a child, I do not know my age, and my mother is having a bout of extreme anger and total out of control behavior. On many, many, many, many, many occasions she becomes furious with me.


She is in a rage, she slaps my face, she is looking me over from head to toe with contempt and disgust, she just spit in my face and is yelling horrible things at me, “I hate you - I wish you were never born!” “You will never amount to anything, you will be a failure just like your father.”


I will stop at that.

I feel my heart pound as I type this; my breathing is heavy and fast, my hands sweaty, my throat tight and my eyes watery. I feel anger toward my Mom, I feel her rage, I feel sad, ashamed and embarrassed, and I feel alone.

Now, I feel forgiveness and love for my Mom as well as anger and extreme dislike; I call it a “conflicted” feeling that is with me.


I have similar “conflicted” feelings around my father for separate experiences and they are with me.

I feel a little better about letting this out and more ready to work on this or whatever in a group setting and maybe less ashamed. I have the TT book and am starting it “now”. The Tribe I sent the email to is not real active, so I intend to start my own or seek an alternate tribe or both.

Some clock time goes by and I now feel submissive like an aggressive dog who gives up a fight and lies on its back, with legs in the air.


I feel strange; I feel like this is so important that nothing else matters, also I feel selfish for needing to use FAQ to open up before I take this to tribe.

I feel close to you and all the contributors to FAQ, I feel with them and I get your response – I feel connection to all of you!

Thank you very much.

Thank you for sharing your process.


In the Rocks Process, the rock carries a program that links the emotion of a situation, say hearing "horrible" things, to a response, such as feeling submissive. 


People can typically identify the "provoker" or "abuser" - the person doing the yelling.  In the Rocks Process, we also come to identify the donor of the rock, the person who is the role model for, in this case, the submissive behavior.


To "forgive" the rock, we re-enact the critical incident and  give the rock back to the donor.


We then create and install a new, pro-active rock, that responds pro-actively to the emotion.




The Provocation

comes from the provoker

and may last a few moments.


The Response

comes from the rock donor

and may linger on

for a lifetime.



Clip: http://doyoureallyknowyourneighbor.com/

Mon, 15 Oct 2007


Snapshot Gets Clearer

see previous Touching

Hi Ed,

Here is my latest snapshot:

We are in an embrace in the kitchen of our new home. Our children and their friends are around the table. Plans for the new barn are on the counter.


P.S. I feel warm tile under my feet, and smell the wonderful scent of skin-on-skin.

Thank you for sharing your process.


You might notice what feelings come up at the thought of actually manifesting your snapshot.

Mon, 15 Oct 2007


Woman - Version 1.02

Dear Ed,

I want to stay on MY task, this means:

(1) I don't want to be "less" for my mother, my brother and my uncle any longer, so that they "feel better".

(2) Want to get rid of program "Woman Version 1.02" that haunts my family since 1901, as described in my send of Sun, 19 Nov 2006.


This hit me like a concrete wall when I started to make plans after reading "Intimate Relationships" in your book. I go swimming today and realize that's still under operation in some parts concerning relating.

(3) I don't want to sacrifice myself to love or be loved.

I suspect I go in a repetition there but feel quite relieved to write it down.

Thank you for sharing your process.


You might have a look through your role models and see which one(s) you recall following the V1.02 program.


You might also recall some events in which you use V1.02 as a child - in order to survive.

Mon, 15 Oct 2007


Computing Bliss

Dear Mr. Seykota,

If Bliss=ICAGR/DD,

how do you determine ICAGR/DD.

My definition of 'robust' keeps changing.

A system is robust if changing a small fraction of the data set does not change the performance.


In math, the median is a fairly robust statistic; you can change any data point, save the middle one, and not change the median.


You can determine ICAGR and DD from your simulation run.


Evidently, your definition of "robust" is not very robust.



Mon, 15 Oct 2007


Workshop Preparations -

Feelings About Variance /

Keeping My Nose Above Water

see: Workshop Outcomes

Date:  11:05:58 -0700

I say: My outcomes for the October workshop are:

1. I am clear in developing and trading my system.

Ed Says: You might consider being very specific - and noticing what feelings come up for you about being specific about what you want.

1. Specify the amount of money you see yourself managing and the yearly profits you make.

I am a private trader with [$ ] allocated to trading.

(This is a portion of my liquid assets. I make the allocation decisions about the rest of my funds too.)

I fund an account with [$ ] and once I prove I can earn more than 7% annually I increase the account size. I feel good to recite this info from decisions I make over two years ago.

I calculate that 9% annual earnings makes trading worthwhile for me monetarily. I want 40+% gains.

These figures are in my back-pocket too but I feel anxious when I review them:

-- Is inflation higher than I expected? Yes for food, but my big care-abouts (rent, plane tix, gadgets & gear) stay about the same.

-- Do I have a good reason for anchoring at 40%? No.

-- My current systems aren’t cutting it. Is my development on track to deliver?

This strikes me as my normal useful anxiety.

Digging a little deeper for hotter feelings:

I want to follow my system with zero variance.

I currently trade a mechanical stock system whose main attraction is a heuristic that pleases me. The system itself is profitable.


My ability to follow it is less profitable but I keep my nose above water.


My current failure mode occurs when I feel a little low outside of trading and I face a mid-size loss. I want to get around the midsize loss and disable my automatic exit (I wouldn’t dare do this with a big loss).


My manual efforts usually make the loss a little worse. Breaking one rule seems to open me up to breaking others and I do – entering without a signal and grabbing profits before they’re ripe, etc. My joyride ends when I perceive breakeven vs. some recent gain. I feel righteous about my goal of zero variance.


I feel frustrated, angry and baffled that I can’t consistently follow some relatively simple steps to achieve my goal.

I want to develop a better system than I have now.

I adopt a bliss function of gains / drawdowns and work to maximize it. I choose to build mechanical systems because attempts with discretionary trading swamp me with regrets and self-recriminations.


When I think about my system-under-development, I feel a piece missing from my head – a physical sensation of a blind spot perhaps. I worry about potential holes in my testing.

I plan to send specifics for my other two workshop topics in separate emails.

Thank you for your help and attention.

Thank you for sharing your process.


You might consider recalling the feelings you are dealing with at the moment you vary from your rules.



Keeping your nose above the water

can be ...



... a matter of survival ...




... a natural posture ...




... or recreation.













Mon, 15 Oct 2007



Dear Ed,

talking to Mom. Yes. Again :-). I avoided her lately, which was a good idea, but cost a lot of energy. Now I enjoy the contact and the more substantial

I am definitely gyrating around here and try a real short one now:

[I manage my portfolio - much better as I trade or whatsoever. Done.]
(1) I travel.
(2) I make music.
(3) I have a partner.
(4) I stay on task.

I note that this is all "I" now and I don't care about it, actually. Things have to be done finally.

Therefore, I want to focus on "(4) I stay on task".

Have snapshots for (1) to (3). Snapshot for (4) could be "I buy some potential winners and sell some losers." or "Accurate and Precise" (your Snapshot of Fri, 14 Sep 2007, which I love quite a lot or one of the above).

Following along FAQ gave me a lot of insights already and made it possible to draw the above list and snapshots. I am very happy about that already. A lot of thanks to you and the FAQ contributors for your and their ideas and feelings you and they are willing to share with other people.

Looking forward to the journey.

PS: I definitely realize, that FAQ, gyrating and tribe would have been better as FAQ and gyrating without tribe.


I will return to that mode after workshop. Somebody offered his flat already so that we can resume activities there.







Clip: http://www.barbwired.com/nadiaweb/


Sun, 14 Oct 2007


Preparing for the Rocks Process


see previous: Choking & Throttling Feelings



Ed Says: You might allow your self to imagine what life might be like with fully intimate emotional expression and also with full emotional throttle.


You might consider the positive intentions of all these variations.

Thank you for your guidance.

I consider the two boundary conditions: restricted emotional expression and fully intimate expression.

The positive intentions of restricting emotion might be self-preservation, fitting into the group, and making life a little easier for others.


Max flow of emotion I have a harder time imagining.


I feel less comfortable at this end of the spectrum. It brings to mind fearful images of a stuck throttle: http://www.livevideo.com/video/




The positive intention I imagine is that everyone communicates their needs fully and quickly knows where they stand. They can progress more directly.



Ed Says: You might consider making a list of ways you manage to suppress others' feelings and ways that they suppress yours.

Done. I brainstorm a raw list that runs three pages.


Behaviors I’d like to continue:

v Cheering up my girlfriend after a hard day.
v Giving a little stress to a lackadaisical service provider.
v Putting a guest at ease.

Behaviors I want to use less frequently:

v Taking action myself to fix a complainer’s problem.
v Giving advice to anyone experiencing a “negative” emotion.
v Explaining why the situation is the way it is.
v Attempting to anticipate another’s needs so they don’t have to feel the feelings associated with wanting and asking.

Behaviors I want to replace with a better alternative:

v Responding with anger at any attempt to make me feel guilty.
v Telling them how to feel: “That must feel great!” or “That’s gotta hurt”
v Saying in anger: “I want you to be happy!”
v “Don’t threaten me or else…!”
v Screaming “Shut the f--- up!”
v Placating angry people.

Many tactics I’ve used to throttle others have been used on me. In addition :

v Talking endlessly about their stuff. I experience a brief moment of boredom and / or anxiety. If I fail to extricate myself, I enter suspend mode and sit numb and nodding while they talk on and on. This is particularly effective if the other person is talking about a situation where they themselves are emotionally stuck and unhappy.

v My mother cries or claims ill health if I express anger at her.

v I recall my father not wanting to Get Emotional and speaking critically of his father for Getting Emotional. I feel embarrassed sometimes if I catch myself Getting Emotional.

My next step is to focus on my specific wants (and feelings about the specifics) for the workshop.

Thank you for sharing your process.


At this point you have a pretty good inventory of some of your medicinal and pro-active responses.


You might consider:


1. Locate the source of these responses; recall significant role models who typically engage similar responses.


2. Recall a few vivid incidents from early childhood in which you engage the medicinal behaviors, such as: trying to fix someone else's feelings, suppressing your own feelings and putting everyone else first.




Angry Woman


Children of anger-k-not parents

fear for their own survival

and typically look to role models

to find a medicinal response.


Children implement these responses

as rock resources

and continue to use them as adults

whenever a situation

reminiscent of childhood presents.



Clip: http://www.brandsizzle.com/photos/




Sun, 14 Oct 2007



I am an ISTP. Is this a personality / temperament suited to trading?


The Myers-Briggs series categorizes subjects into a 4x4 grid according to four preferences between eight activities: thinking or feeling; judging or perceiving; sensing or intuition; extraversion or introversion.


My preference is to develop all eight eight activities as pro-active resources.


I suppose someone, with enough grant money, might find some correlation between Myers-Briggs scores and trading.


I suspect they might similarly find a correlation between the color of your shirt and trading.


You might consider taking your feelings about <letting others tell you what is right for you> to Tribe.

Mon, 15 Oct 2007


Talking With Mom About Birth

Dear Trader Ed,

most people are really glad, if they excel in one area like career, family or their leisure activities. Other seem to have vast interests and excel in several areas which seem to be unrelated at first sight. I am impressed and interested to find a new entry about childbirth as of Sat, 13 Oct 2007.

I follow your discussions with the respected yoga master with utmost interest. His sends definitely hit a string over here.

Pain: Repeated cycle of pain and no pain sounds all too familiar. (My pain moved from lumbar spine to a similar area between right leg and body / backside. Chiropractor showed me the area on a skeleton and gave it up. I panic. I do physiotherapy then and all sorts of movements. Pain gone. I forget doing movements. Pain returns. This goes on for years already.)

Lawyers: My lawyer didn't act in my best interest. I stand up for myself and talk to her about it and feel good with this new behavior.

She then took the leave informing me about it three times (mail, phone call, registered mail). She also informs the court which informs me a fourth time and the opposite side, my former employer. Thus she deliberately impairs my bargaining position concerning compensation for an unlawful dismissal. I feel lost and get really upset about the situation. Didn't expect that, too, since I studied law and at least can start swimming in that situation.

I look at delivery (FAQ, Sat, Oct 13, 2007) and ask my mother about my birth. We just finished our second discussion about it and I feel closer to her than I did the last months.

I was born Dec 9, 1964, 3:50 in the night, three and a half weeks early.

During that time my mother had moved from my parents' flat to my grandmother's place because the new house my parents wanted to move to, wasn't finished yet. Now she was preparing the next move. Amniotic fluid started to seep out when my parents were in cinema watching a film. My mother told me already that she didn't know you shouldn't work so hard during the last weeks of pregnancy. The whole situation was a mess for her.

Wow, I just realize that this is how my flats look like. They are messy and I am actually pondering for years to move to another city not finishing the move. It was a new job that drew me to Bonn, but I never felt like developing really roots there. Instead I am on and off pondering about moving then something happens like back ache, I give it up, etc. etc. etc. (see above).

The next day about noon my father takes my mother to the hospital. They keep my mother there. My mother is not in labor nor does she remember when labor starts.

My father leaves. Assistance of partner was not common in my country during those years. My mother admits that she felt lost and lonely in this night when I was born at 3:50 and no relative was around.

Note: A family constellation already showed that my mother was sort of dying during that hours of delivery. The lady who represented my mother in that family constellation suspected that she got mechanical ventilation.

My mother says none got a mechanical ventilation neither her nor me. Everything was fine, no special occurences. Yes, she was a bit lonely, but that's like things were in the sixties.

I was drawn to existence with a vacuum extraction. I look it up in wikipedia and see this ugly photo of a babie's head drawn out with that instrument. I feel some fears coming up.

My mother says I just looked fine and developed despite arriving too early. No red spots on the head, bleeding scalp, mechanical ventilation, whatsoever. The physician in charge was nice and she trusted him.

Man, when I look at my life, I am just getting the impression that birth seems to be a formative factor who life turns out or doesn't turn out.


I feel some anger in remembering reading an medical article I retrieved via wikipedia yesterday that systematically trivializes the risks of neonatal and maternal injury during childbirth in using vacuum extraction and forceps.

Like my mother says, all fine, nothing happens really. I am mad at those "Gods in White" like they are called in my country. I feel dizzy and get a headache.

I dismiss snapshot "Empty Room" already after it today turns into a white room with a white pedestal, all white and empty. That was a strange one and now (NOW) I understand it. I have a headache.

Nevertheless, Ed says: ... snapshot.

The essential snapshot here is "Freedom". I see myself lying in the sand, sun is shining on my skin, I close my eyes and relax. The waves of light-blue sea are coming in and retreating. I look at the scene like a photo from a wonderful holiday. Yes, I want to travel and actually enjoy my new freedom.

I am a little bit upset now.


Sun, 14 Oct 2007



see previous: Wanting Touch

Hi Ed:

I love the photo of the baby in your response. Her body and expression say she loves her Mother's touch. I have no baby, but others say I treat my dog as a child. I recall that I really do not pet my dog much. I occasionally scratch her ears and rub her tummy when she rolls over on the carpet.


Today, I touch her chest and immediately we are both aware of her heart beating under my hands. She doesn't move, nor do I. I am so taken back by this simple feeling that tears roll down my face.


This scares her and she jumps away. My tears turn into sobs as I think of children and families.

I focus on one friend and his family. He is also a client and a mentor. I find my best professional relationships are the people I get the closest to.


Together, when we work on a project, we finish each other's sentences. I also like being around this friend because of how he treats his family. He has a wife of over 20 years, whom he still calls his bride, and they have two teenage children, a girl and a boy. His family is his first priority and they truly are a team. One day, while in his office, I pick up a photo of him on his boat with his children. He is teaching them to sail and his wife, an artist and professional photographer, is taking the photo.


I have tears in my eyes when I tell my friend he has a beautiful life. He says he knows and gives me a huge hug. It is the safe hug of a good friend, and makes me feel like a child. It occurs to me now that I feel and hear his heart beating in his chest.

I am not sure what all this means and I'm not sure what it is that I am feeling anymore. I do not know where all these tears come from. I seem to be flowing with an energy from outside of me. Thank you for your patience, your insight, and for creating an atmosphere of trust that allows me to say such things.

Thank you for sharing your process.


You might consider creating a snapshot of a  relationship with a significant other - perhaps involving children.






like to give and receive

lots of touching.


Clip: http://www.thedogtrainingsecret.com/

Sun, 14 Oct 2007


Associate Program


I'm interested in participating in the associates program. I am interested in the Template program, but I am open to help anywhere you could use me. I may also have some new ideas as I see more about how the program is developing.

Best regards,

Your application is in process.

Sun, 14 Oct 2007



Dear Mr. Seykota,

I hope this e-mail finds you in good health.

I just had a serious Aha! moment, and as i was about to record it in my trading journal, i thought i'd share my new process in FAQ, in case some of my felow traders find it of some use.

I accept that leaving expectations unfulfilled and not feeling feelings is very bad for trading. So whilst practising my daily visualisation routine, i was visualising unprecedented success trading tomorrow, hitting home runs out of the park with every casual attempt and no losing trades. then i realised i was burning this image into my brain too literally and creating an expectation that would need to be fulfilled tomorrow (and as this is seriously unlikely to happen, i just set myself up for a fall).


So, in mild panic, i searched after the expectation in order to resolve it. I found it quickly, and it appeared in my minds eye as a gold ring attached to a gold bar, with no gold ring at the other end, which is what i knew it needed to be complete. I then focused on a visualisation of some trades going against me, others rocketing off in my direction after i just got out of them, and me feeling calm and indiferent every time one of these things happened. When they happened i visualised shrugging my shoulders, looking for another oppertunity, and then having a successful trade i fone comes up. I then began to focus on the half formed expection and whilst visualising a realistic, yet successful day, the expectation grew a second ring at the other end of the bar and looked whole. It thendissolved into nothing leaving peace and calm behind.

I remain in my imaginary "calm room" and so far all this is not a paradym shift for me, but the serious Aha comes next...

I pondered to myself: "thank god i realised that i had created an unfulfillable expecation in time, otherwise that would have done serious damage to my trading tomorrow.". I then thought "i wonder how many times i've created unfulfillable expectations before, and they're still floating around my subconcious causing me trouble". I then looked up in my imaginary room, and the entire ceiling was made up of unfulfilled expectations, in the form of gold bars with a ring at only one end. I don't know what each one was specifically, or how long it had been there hanging over my calm room, but it didn't matter, because i systematicallly deleted each one, by simply focusing on it and imaging it disolving into nothing, leaving nice white clean ceiling behind. I did the first few individually, then started deleting them a dozen or so at a time. After a minute or so, i began melting them hundreds at a time, until the whole ceiling was now free of any obstructions, it was brilliant white and dirt free.

Bearing in my mind that this whole process was going on in my imagination, what is absolutely amazing is the physical effects of this process. By the time i was deleting unfulfilled expectations a dozen or so at a time, my stomach started gurgling and rumbling unbelievably loudly - K-nots were literally untying in my stomach! My breathing had gotten extremely fast, almost breathless, yet at this point it slowed to the point i almost forgot to breath. I had time to notice these phisical side effects in my concious mind, whilst still focusing on the visualisation in amazing detail in my minds eye. It became an easy process to complete, and my muscles literally lost all tension. I sunk like a jellyfish deap into the sofa where i still lay with my eyes closed.

With the process complete, i lay motionless for another five or so minutes admiring my new cleanceiling in my imaginary calm room, the way a true artlover can stare at a Van Gogh for five minutes without a single thought in the way to clutter the beautiful experience. I then peeled myself up off the sofa and my back and neck literally clicked back into place (i didn't know they were out of place). I felt drunk, but in a good way. I still feel amazing like i just had the best masage in the world.

I don't know how this will affect my trading long term, or tomorrow even, but i do know that i've just checked my charts to see if it feels any different and it does tonight at least. It's just easier somehow on my eyes and on my brain. I can feel how the traders felt, when they layed down those candlesticks on friday. I only hope to still have this clarity tomorrow. Hence i am writing it down and will repeat this process as often as it helps.

Best regards and thanks for being a part of my education that allowed me to get to where i am, and continue going hopefully.

You might consider taking your feelings about <using analysis to avoid feelings> to Tribe.


You might also consider running your emails through a spell checker before you send them.

Mon, 15 Oct 2007


A More Specific Snapshot

Locating Annoyance and Frustration

see previous

Hi Ed,

First of all thanks for your suggestion re: preparation of a more specific snapshot. I very much appreciate your guidance and your replies to my FAQ's

With reference to FAQ Sat. 13th 0ct. 2007 - "Holding back & moving forward," yes, my Snapshot detailed in the above FAQ is vague & non-specific.
As per your suggestion, one particular issue (amongst many) that is holding me back is with respect to my Yoga practice.

I have a nagging & annoying minor injury in my right lower flank / hip region that limits my practice.
Generally I can work around this by limiting what I do & how deep I go into the postures that I am able to do. This has been a recurring injury for a number of years now so obviously there is weak spot somewhere in that hip area. Try as I may, I am unable to get 'on top of it'.

I know what needs to be done in order to alleviate the condition & slowly over a period of time I am able to 'fix' it up through a combination of rest & various stretches so that I am able to get full mobility back.

At this point I am able to crank up my practice and I am able to make progress and go deeper into other postures. Months may go by and just when everything is looking rosy, BANG!!, there goes that hip again.

Once again, slowly it gets fixed again and once again I strain it again. Fix . . . Strain . . . . Fix . . . . .Strain . . . . . Fix etc.

It feels almost as if someone is engineering this scenario, whilst taking a perverse delight in watching me get frustrated and highly annoyed.

I recall about a month ago, whilst doing a practice at home, I think to myself, "Wow!, I've been progressing really well for a few months now and no sign of any hip trouble", sure enough, about an hour later (during the same practice) I push a little too far and strain my hip.





O.k. now with the preamble out of the way here is my snapshot;

On paper, I sketch a scene of myself in an effortless backbend posture.

I am soft all over as I push into the floor with palms and feet. My body assumes an inverted 'U' shape. My hips are very high and I feel no tension or discomfort whatsoever in this region. In fact I feel no tension or discomfort anywhere.

My face has a hint of a smile but generally remains in equanimity.

I inhale and exhale slowly and rhythmically as I remain soft and relaxed whilst I support myself in this posture. There is no struggle. There is no pain. I release completely.

My snapshot slogan is "Effortless Action"



So having prepared a Snapshot, do I now explore the feelings associated with what's standing between me and the realization of that snapshot? From my understanding, I would say the answer is YES!

So I would take the feelings of annoyance, anger & frustration and apply TTP / Rocks to overcome the dramas associated with my unwillingness to embrace these feelings.

Easy !!! . . . . . (he says, tongue in cheek!)

Thank you for sharing your process.


Being specific about your snapshot is also bringing up specific feelings of annoyance.


When you are willing to fully experience your feelings or <annoyance and frustration> - to the point that these feelings become your allies,  you may find you can execute back bends with little effort.


You may, incidentally, find you can execute effortlessly in many other previously annoying areas in your life.




The Scorpion




Getting On Top of The Rocks


If you can't execute these forms

you may have some feeling

that you are unwilling

to experience.








Sat, 13 Oct 2007


Definitely Too High

Shy - Try Hi and Bye


I am reporting to you the results of the experiment of "Definitely Too High" that is an issue I am working on in the tribe meeting on Sep 20, 2007. The experiment period is two weeks, starting from the day of the meeting. Stock symbols in this experiment are ones I feel are "definitely too high" ... CE, NH, KROC, SC ON, and DRYS. CG and CD are symbols of Gold and Canadian Dollar futures.

Closing prices on Sep 20, 2007
CEA: 121.24
ZNH: 94.48
JRJC: 22.10
SCON: 5.98
DRYS: 75.97
GCZ8: 739.9
CDZ8: 1.0000

Closing prices on Oct 4, 2007
CEA: 96.02
ZNH: 69.94
JRJC: 40.90
SCON: 7.54
DRYS: 93.29
GCZ8: 743.8
CDZ8: 1.0040

Surely, some of them move up and some move down. But if I buy $10,000.00 on each of stocks and one contract on each of futures at close price on Sep 20, 2007, and sell them at close price on Oct 4, 2007, the total profits excluding costs are about $9,557.7. If I can hold these positions to now on Oct 13, 2007, the total profits are about $17,233.38.

So what does "Definitely Too High" mean to me?


It means shy trading performance results. That is what Ed points out to me during the tribe meeting. Ed also helps me to look at meanings of the word 'Shy'.


One of its meanings is 'lack of confidence'. It is a feeling of fear to lose and fail. 'Definitely Too High' is my medicine to medicating my feelings of fear to lose.

The practice of TTP helps me to appreciate experiencing feelings of 'lack of confidence'.


For example, to make new friends, I can say 'Hi' to strangers, then say 'Bye'.


To make profits in trading, I say 'New High', then say 'Buy now'.

I like your idea to pass the 'free milk' from generation to generation.


Thank you Ed for your 'free milk' in a variety of ways.

Thank you for sharing your process.


Buying highs is an essential method of Trend Trading. 


While the method works pretty well in back tests, in actual practice, people may be unwilling to follow it.






The red circle indicates

the contributor's feeling

that the stock is

definitely too high.




Trend Traders

who are unwilling

to experience their feelings

may override their signals.


An alternative

is to stick to the system

and bring feelings about it

to Tribe.



Note: The intention of inclusion of charts in FAQ is to illustrate trading principles - The appearance of a chart does not imply any kind of indication or recommendation to buy, sell, hold or stay out of any positions.



Sat, 13 Oct 2007


Entitlement - 3

see previous



Im trying to understand.

I thought we were supposed to ask others whether or not they would be willing to help us with our intention. Ex: I intend to go to the Oct. workshop. I cant afford it. Would you be willing to help?

At the same time I understand that there must be an expectation with an intention or its not an intention at all.

I see how my expectations of others is manifesting around me.

I am now avoiding the tendency to intend / expect others to behave in a certain way.

What am I to understand about asking others if they would be willing to help vs intending / expecting assistance?

Thank you for your patience and assistance.

The "free help" I am offering you (in this mini-FAQ-Workshop) is to suggest you take your feelings about <entitlement> and <expectation> to Tribe.


You might also consider how to honor the entitlements and expectations of other people with whom you deal.




Babies Have an Entitlement

to free milk


and mothers have

an irresistible urge

to deliver it.


When babies mature

and become children

this entitlement ceases.


When children mature

and become adults

they have their own babies


who, in their turn,

have an entitlement

to free milk.



Clip: http://www.womanthouartgod.com/


Sat, 13 Oct 2007


Holding Back & Moving Forward

Hi Ed,

(Re: FAQ Wed 10th 0ct,. 2007 - "Evolution of TTP")

Thank you for the opportunity to explore this issue further via the Snapshot Process.

Upon reading your suggestion that I might like to prepare a snapshot that shows how I would like the situation to turn out, I instantly think of and sketch a scene on paper together with a title at the bottom of the page.

I find it interesting that the snapshot I come up with has little to do with the actual drama itself & the circumstances that trigger it, so perhaps I'm not following your suggestion to the letter. However it is the first thing that comes to mind so this is what i go with.

My snapshot scene has a somewhat abstract & symbolic look to it and consists of my good self standing in the middle of a road with a pair of giant boom gates that were once closed, now being fully open. I also show a set of tall, massive concrete blocks that once blocked the path having now moved out of the way allowing free passage through. I no longer feel hemmed in and I have a smile on my face as I look into the distance and I see a clear path and two speed signs on either side of the road that read "No Limit" as well as a lovely peaceful nature scene beyond. All my limitations are removed & the road is clear (i.e. blue sky ahead or '52 week highs' if you prefer) I title the snapshot "All barriers open up, my road forward is clear"

As previously mentioned, this snapshot is somewhat abstract, in that I say my road is now clear yet I do not show or define to what destination this clear road now leads. It simply leads to an undefined 'happy place'.

To my mind, the whole picture represents a desire to break free from what is holding me back and preventing me from moving forward.

This ties in well with some of my previous FAQ's, where I mention feelings of Frustration, Anger & a general 'Stuckness' as well as the feelings associated with making good progress only to have something happen that sends me back to square one.

A further item of interest (to myself) is that as I write this, I remember a similar sketch that I produced many years ago (pre-TTP) as part of a personal growth exercise. Back then I sketch a similar picture showing blockages & an inability to move forward. Hmmmmmm!

As I understand it, the Snapshot Process helps to identify K-nots that prevent the realization of that snapshot. Once issues are pinpointed (in my case Frustration, Anger, Blockages etc), then TTP/Rocks processes may be used to untie the K-nots and overcome the dramas associated with these K-nots.

Regardless of its abstract / symbolic qualities, my snapshot highlights, to me, some good themes for further exploration.

Thanks once again for the prompt.

Thank you for sharing your process.


You might consider being very specific with your snapshot.


Pick one situation that you find is holding you back; make a snapshot of the situation with you at successful completion.




Completion of an Essential Task


Completion of the journey through the birth canal

develops resources that support operating under pressure, moving forward and making it through.


Caesarian deliveries may circumvent this essential and formative struggle.



Clip: http://www.collegeofmidwives.org/



Fri, 12 Oct 2007


Preparing for Workshop ...

Feeling Sad & Wanting Touch

see previous


It rains here all day. I am so sad.

I am going to bed and I hope I go to sleep.

I feel my tears come directly from the center of my chest. Right behind the breast bone. I want hands to touch me there.

I feel so foolish.

Thank you for sharing your process.




Receiving Loving Touch


is an essential part

of being a child.


Providing loving touch to others

is an essential part

of being an adult.




Longing for Healing Hands


may indicate a pattern

of continuing to push away

what we could not get

as children.


One way to get

what you need

it to give it

to someone else.








Fri, 12 Oct 2007


Associate Program - Application


I would be more than honored to participate in the Associate Program with all duties and tasks.

Just considering how much I learned form the web page in the last two years and and seeing the benefits from the tribe (we have a small Tribe here in [City] since June, every Friday) is just amazing.

Yes I would love to work with another apprentice together.

OK.  Your application is now in process.

Fri, 12 Oct 2007

Workshop Outcomes



My outcomes for the October workshop are:

1. I am clear in developing and trading my system.

2. I can help and relate to others without getting tangled in drama.

3. I share knowledge of Rocks Process with the [City] Tribe.

You might consider being very specific - and noticing what feelings come up for you about being specific about what you want.


1. Specify the amount of money you see yourself managing and the yearly profits  you make.


2. Specify one existing relationship tangle and how you would prefer that relationship to operate.


3. Specify the specific people and the issues that you intend to address with the Rocks process.

Fri, 12 Oct 2007


Choking and Throttling Feelings

Hi Ed,

Just a note to say I’ve read the whole FAQ .

I am here now.

I feel gratitude for all you have put into FAQ and TTP.

I also want to thank the anonymous contributors.

The posts in both columns help me.

Now I feel a little lost.

What to do without a big chunk of reading on my plate?

Buckle down to work on myself? Yikes!

Or re-write my back-tests in C#? Choices, choices.

The sheer force of repetition – reading all kinds of entries that earn a suggestion to “take your <feeling> to the hot seat” -- gives me the conviction that my feelings, my stuck-ness, my trading challenges have their next step on the hot seat. I wonder what Rocks I hold.

I think each person who reads FAQ can find certain comments that hold special meaning.

For me, what I initially think is a subtle point turns out to be a generally useful message.

Several FAQ entries illustrate the importance of letting others feel their own feelings.

I re-read these entries and puzzle over them as it’s an entirely new perspective to me.

I pay attention to how I interact for a few days.

I feel astonishment and horror at how often and how hard I try to keep others from feeling their feelings.

Whether I’m cheering up or giving angry pushback, I want the other person to express different feelings than what they present.

I see it in most my interactions and fumble for a new way to behave.

Thank you for sharing your process.


You might consider making a list of ways you manage to suppress others' feelings and ways that they suppress yours.


You might allow your self to imagine what life might be like with fully intimate emotional expression and also with full emotional throttle.


You might consider the positive intentions of all these variations.






Opening and closing the throttle

changes the power of the engine.


A large, smooth, wide-open throat

promotes maximum flow.




A Choke


helps to get a cold engine

up and running.




When Intake Air Flow Reaches Mach-1


throat size limits air flow.


Further reductions

in upstream vacuum

no longer increase air flow.











Fri, 12 Oct 2007

Dancing With a Shadow

see: http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/


I am right-side.

You might consider taking your feelings about <coming out of the shadows, taking a real life girl dancing and sharing your feelings with her> to Tribe.

Fri, 12 Oct 2007


Preparing for Workshop

see: Trading on Feelings

Hi Ed:

I appreciate your response to my latest FAQ. I am up and reading it at about 3 a.m. this morning, and I go back and curl up in a ball in my bed and cry. I notice it is amongst other responses that also bring up feelings for me ... sadness, jealousy, and loneliness.

As part of my intention to build and stick to a profitable system, I am sending you the system parameters I abandon in August. Since mid-2006, I work with two versions of commercial systems. I am attaching the latest set of parameters and market portfolio. Using this system, I run my account up 50% and drawn it down to flat. I abandon this system in August.

Your response makes me see and feel things about how I keep thinking, and thinking, and waiting. None of that is working for me.

I want to move beyond pain, I want to feel and learn. I am wondering how to prepare for the Workshop.


Commercial System Parameters:
MACD long average (days) = 145
MACD short average (days) = 125
Risk Per Trade (%) = 2%
Entry Breakout (days) = 30
Stop (ATR) = 1.8
Exit Breakout (days) = 19
ATR (days) = 29


From 1996-01-01 to present

End Balance = $28,668,080
CAGAR% = 83.1
MAR = 1.62
Sharpe = 1.26
Ann. Sharpe = 1.23
Max Drawdown = 51.3%
Longest Drawndown = 17.1 months
Trades = 1,111

Thank you for sharing your process.


You seem to be preparing nicely.


You might consider purposefully increasing the degree to which you keep thinking and waiting.




Your backtest results include a value for "drawndown."   You might consider locating the origin of this typo; it might originate in your testing software or in your transcription.


You might consider engaging thinking and waiting as resources to eliminate errors and implement discipline and consistency in your trading.









A few letters

can change the essential meaning.








Fri, 12 Oct 2007


Entitlement - 2

see previous



Ed says: You might consider taking your feelings about <entitlement> to your Tribe.

I wonder if your projecting feelings of entitlement? I made a request w / no expectation? Thank you for your consideration.

Perhaps you can assist me to see how I am projecting. As the Workshop presenter I have both an entitlement and an obligation to attend.


Perhaps you can help me understand how you can present a request without holding expectations.



Fri, 12 Oct 2007


Looking and Considering ...

and Missing Trades



My Yen trade continues to work well. I am looking at other markets to enter by reviewing the charts and analyzing them with a combination of exponential moving average and support/resistance breakout.


The ema I use is not optimized for any particular market but uses a slow lag that is moderately long. I am now considering entering Dec wheat. It is still on a long term trend up and has just broken through a minor down trend line.

The Canadian dollar also meets the criteria I have been using. I just missed it earlier this week when I was not feeling well.


I should have had my buy stop in and if it hit I would have entered right below 1.00. I find something very interesting in my reluctance to trade lately.


I have made a good run and have a great percentage return, but now I have pulled back because I have fear of losing it.


I seem to enjoy talking about how well I am doing and don't want to do more for fear of not doing as well. Very interesting. So, I am rededicating myself to selecting and entering markets that meet my criteria, putting smart stops in, and playing from here. To learn what I want to learn I cannot really continue to avoid confronting the markets.


This sounds similar to what I do in other areas of my life.

Thank you for sharing your process.


You might consider taking your feelings about <defining your criteria> and <sticking to your plan> to Tribe.

Fri, 12 Oct 2007


Expressing Gratitude

Dear Ed,

thank you for your answers and all your efforts you put in FAQ.

I keep your comments and work on the opportunities to bring the issues to my tribe.

Indeed have some difficulties to express feelings.

Kindest regards and thank you so much.


Fri, 12 Oct 2007



see:  Twelve Step

I see alcoholism as a disease. Like cancer. It's not about being good or bad. It's about having a physical allergy to alcohol.

I am not promoting AA. I see the program differently. It's given me a life.

It was not started by a church. It was started by a couple alcoholics.

No 10% tithe. Drop $1 in the basket for expenses, if able. If not, no worries.

Try not to forget Rule #62.


Don't take yourself so seriously.

In TTP we also do not consider people good or bad.  We encourage them to be the way they are.


We do consider some behavior patterns to be medicinal and others pro-active.


If viewing a behavior pattern as an allergy or as a disease works for you, I would encourage you to continue with that view.


I wonder how seriously you wish me to take Rule #62.

Thu, 11 Oct 2007





I am interested in attending the October workshop. I can not afford the price of admission, nor the cost of the hotel. Would you cover my expenses and, and wave the cost of the workshop? I am willing to repay you.

You might consider taking your feelings about <entitlement> to your Tribe.


Thu, 11 Oct 2007


Clinical Study



What methods of measurement do you feel would be adequate to employ in a clinical study examining the value of TTP?

Method is a function of intention.  I wonder what purpose you have in mind for such a study.


Absent any guidance from you, and if you were to leave it to me, I'd recommend measurement by several female banjo players. You may send them over, right away, to begin the study.








TTP Measurement Crew












More Information on Banjos:


Thu, 11 Oct 2007


Associate Program: Learning to Trade

Trading on Feelings

Hi Ed,

Here my trades for today. I begin with one position, (1) long March 08 Sugar. I enter three new long positions: (1) Dec 07 Gold (new high); (1) Dec 07 Canada $ (new high); and (1) Dec 07 Cotton (off trend line). I also notice Crude made a new high, but do not enter a position based on high collective risk for the day.

I am stop out of Gold with an approximate 1% loss (of total equity). While reviewing my chart-based stops, I notice I am willing to take an approximate 1.5% risk on cotton and a 2% risk on the Canadian Dollar.

I feel I am obsessed with Cotton as I am chasing this market (both short and long) since June with a small, collective net gain. I also feel I am trying to catch a turn in Sugar, as I am previously short this market the first half of this year.


I feel good about both today's Gold and Canadian Dollar trades, as I am previously long these markets and re-entering after a consolidation and on a new high.

I seem to have no plan to enter / exit markets. I am considering using an ATR (average true range) basis for stops, as well as chart-based stops.


My intention is to write down my process for entering markets based on new highs. One challenge is to figure out a way to normalize risk across trades. Another challenge is determining how my stops figure into this risk. I intend to share this plan with you when complete. At this point, I am not sure how to communicate (or curb) my impulses to chase and second-guess certain markets I obsess about.

Thank you for all your help.

Thank you for sharing your process.


You might consider taking your feelings about <obsession> and <catching a turn> and <re-entering a market> to Tribe.


When you are willing to experience all these feelings and still take all your signals from your system, you may have a chance to implement a trading system.


If you find yourself trading by your feelings (or to avoid feelings), and trading often, you may be using the markets as Fred's Playground.




Sticking to a Weight-Loss Plan


Clip: http://www.fellowtraders.com/brokeneven.jpg

Thu, 11 Oct 2007


Wants to Know the Trend



Would you consider making a comment or two about identifying a chart that is reversing its trend, or has very recently reversed it's trend, and the indicators that support this fact?

There is no such thing as "The Trend."  Trend is a definition that you bring to a chart.  Short-term, medium-term and long-term trends may all be different.

FAQ does not recommend specific trading system parameters. See Ground Rules.

Thu, 11 Oct 2007


Demanding Feelings

Dear Ed,

Wow, I am disappointed that I get no answer to my last send.  (See: previous: Hoping)

I wanted to write something to fight the chartists and traders going short in Dow (yawn) and demand more mails about feelings.


Which is their process and not my issue either. Probably they have to write mails for their process' sake.

Unfortunately, my mail turned out as something else.

Probably the world was a better place when I was kept in my workplace and hassled my boss and my colleagues and had a private life which isn't worth mentioning.

Now, I feel much better, actually, but the feelings situation changes from minute to minute, so as to say.

Right now, I feel discouraged in my workshop preparations like watching American films in original version (Man, great) and read a textbook about "American English" (fun).

So I write another mail :-) What to do, I have to dissolve the situation otherwise I am hiding in the bushes in the US.

Thank you for sharing your process.


You might consider taking your feelings about <wanting others to share feelings with you> to Tribe.

Thu, 11 Oct 2007


Lots of Loss

Hi Ed,

I write to you in August after experiencing a tremendous losses in my trading program. I also write about the fact that I have seriously injured my marriage through a betrayal. I cite the feelings that arise in all of this tumult, eg. a churning or sickness in my stomach. I commit at that time to rebuilding both my marriage and my trading equity.

To date, my results are not encouraging. Though my trading program recoups some equity in September, a poor start to October has me back to where I am at the end of August. Though I have modified my system to better deal with the sort of swoon that I encountered from mid-July to mid-August, the research that I have done suggests that I am better served by waiting until after I get out of drawdown before implementing any changes. However, if I were to suffer another downdraft like the one from Jul-Aug, my system's circuit breakers would be switched and the program would get turned off. I feel stuck and frustrated. As my equity continues to bounce around near the bottom, I feel tired and raw.

My progress in rebuilding my marriage is even less encouraging. In our tribe, I commit repeatedly over the course of the summer and into the fall that I will be a better receiver and a sender with my wife.


I find myself totally frustrated with her unwillingness to engage on a meaningful level. Our communication generally centers only on the circumstantial, like what is going on with the children or what she does during the day etc. On those few occasions where we broach the subject of my betrayal, it is routinely a scenario where she lashes out at me and I accept her lashing out, and continue to reiterate my sorrow and regret for having committed the betrayal.


This does not appear to help. The situation deteriorates. She maintains that she is not sure if she can ever accept my betrayal despite my insistence that it was terribly wrong, that my sorrow and regret are deep and that it would never happen again. She suggests that it is better if I leave the house for a while. The idea of her no longer wanting me, or my not being able to be with my children all of the time is yet another sharp stab to the gut. I am utterly demoralized.

In our tribe we work on the snapshot process, we are trying to get back into creating vivid images for each of the sub parts of the overall snapshot, ie. body, professional, relationships and fun. We have drifted into concentrating too much on short term benchmarks, and perhaps losing site of the broader image -- or what it is that we are trying to achieve in the aggregate. I am lost here as well. Whereas I used to have concrete mental images that served as inspiration for making progress and moving forward, now I cannot even muster an idea about where I see myself.

I really feel loss. I feel stuck. I feel sadness.

I will report back to FAQ with my progress.

Thank you for sharing your process.


You might consider taking your feelings about <loss> to Tribe.




Sadness is a Feeling

that associates with loss.


One of the positive intentions

of experiencing the feeling of loss

is to develop resources

to prevent loss.


People who are unwilling

to experience loss

typically engineer a surplus

of loss into their lives.


Clip: http://slog.thestranger.com/files/