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November 1 - 10, 2009


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Contributors Say

(Quotes from Ed in Red)

Ed Says

Tuesday, November 10, 2009


Cause and Effect at Work


Dear Ed,


I thought you would like this sign of cause and effect:



Clip: http://www.flickr.com/photos/16117146


I wonder if the cause and the effect might be interchangeable.

Tuesday, November 10, 2009


Letting Go and Getting Results


On Friday, September 11, 2009 “From Control to Intimacy” I reported about a “patient” with a “severe depression”. One of her main issues is “abandon/rejection”. For her, the feeling is so intolerable that, as her husband tells her that he is thinking about leaving her, she attempts twice to commit suicide. She receives psychotherapy and antidepressants; due to her alcoholism, her marriage is ruined. Her still-husband has a new girlfriend and is moving in with her in some weeks. A colleague mentions “with her history, she is beyond any help”. Psychologist would try to build up her resources and to teach her how to live with the loss.

She is willing to work, but she is terrified of experiencing her feelings, feelings which once brought her to the brink of death.

During the first two meetings she shows a signature form; while she makes some progress, she still does not reach the zero point. At the third meeting, after testing willingness, I pace her for about one hour. I share her signature form; sometimes I lead, sometimes I follow her. She can enjoy “abandon / rejection”, although the form is not completely resolved.

I see her again after two weeks. Her marital situation has not changed, but lo and behold!, during a visit to her brother she meets, after some 20 years, an old boyfriend. He tells her that he never forgot her, that he is still in love with her, and invites her to spend a week with him. During the week he overwhelms her with demonstration of affection and love, which she did not receive for years.

As she resolves her issue, the “cure” suddenly appears out of nowhere. This “therapeutic approach” is not described in conventional psychology books (rather in sorcery tractates).

I wonder how many people are hiding out there, just waiting to show up as soon as we are willing to resolve our issues.

Thank you for sharing your process - and for your insights on the mechanics of getting something better.



Tuesday, November 10, 2009


Giving Life to a New Being

Dear Ed,

I notice that after the workshop I feel closer to my husband and much closer to my goal of having a baby!

A lady I know only in passing comes up to me one day and lets me know that I will be pregnant in the Spring and that I need not worry about having a baby so my dad can enjoy being a grandfather, have the baby for us. She confirms that my dad is happy to have me close. She also comments on the unique relationship I share with my father - we are friends.

I go spend the weekend with my family and decided to sit down with my mom, dad and husband and talk about my fear of having a baby and loosing my dad. He tells me that he is not going anywhere and not to worry - he is truly happy just to have me around.

I feel much better about this and realize that I have spent many, many years worried about timing and what my family would think about having a baby. I am no longer worried. My whole family is in support of my wanting to have a baby and encourage us.

I make an appointment to see a specialty doctor with my husband. My husband surprises me with a vehicle that will fit 8 - a good and secure vehicle for our family.

I notice I am sad about my step-son. His mother will not allow us visitation. My husband and I talk about it and decide our only course of action is to go to court to ask for visitation. I miss my step-son so much. It has been over 2 years. I make a reservation for a flight to the state he lives in and set up appointments to hire a lawyer. I feel better, my husband still misses his son.

Thank you Ed and support team and most importantly - - Thank you Ed for being my beacon in a storm.

Thank you for sharing your process.


Sometimes the best way to change others is by working on ourselves.


You might consider taking your feelings about <missing your step son> to Tribe.

Tuesday, November 10, 2009

Starting a Fund

Dear All,

My big wave is to start [Name] in 2010.

At the Workshop I commit to the following:

1. Speak to 3 potential clients every weekday.

2. Raise $500k by year end to start trading in January 2010.

3. Finalize legal, incorporation documents and business plan.

4. Optimize trading system.

5. Develop another trading system for the fund.

6. I report my progress every two weeks.

Since the workshop I do the following to work towards achieving my big wave:

1. I complete on average 3 calls a day (some days I make 4-5 calls some I make 2) to friends, business associates and potential clients. I also speak to cap intro firms and ex-colleagues about raising assets with through them.

2. I have some commitment from family members about investing in the fund during the
initial stages.

3. I spend time developing corporate documents, fee schedules and agreements for the fund. I also work on the business plan and marketing material with my wife.

4. I do not spend much time on system development since the workshop. I plan to go into this within the next week.

I use the below quote as my guiding principle in establishing [Name] and moving towards right livelihood:

Excellence is an art won by training and habituation.
We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence,
but we rather have those because we have acted rightly.
We are what we repeatedly do.
Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.

                                           -- Aristotle

Thank you Ed, and everyone at the workshop for your valuable feedback, support and commitment.

Thank you for sharing your process.

Tuesday, November 10, 2009


Trading Software


Dear Ed,

I am making progress on my goal. I can feel all of you out there and you help keep me accountable. Thank you for that.

1) My excel spreadsheet shows that I works 15.5 hours on my goal. This is a good start.

2) Question: Please let me know if you have any opinions on trading software. At this time, I do not have much coding experience. I would like software that I can be somewhat proficient in using after 100 hours. I want software that I can use both as a beginner and also as a expert.  I am leaning toward Trading Blox - It seems like it is excellent for back testing. It has inferior charts (from what I read). The is coding is similar to Microsoft basic, which sounds simple :) I have not heard that much good about Meta Stock. Trade station sounds excellent at charts, but poor at backtesting. Amibroker seems challenging to learn with poor support. I have looked at five or six others that did not jump out at me. Some basic feed back would be greatly appreciated.

Ed, I understand on FAQ there is no endorsing products, yet this is my second email asking about products. Please feel free to post any of my emails on FAQ. I am not sure if there is a different code of conduct for support group emails or if everything simply goes on FAQ. Please let me know.

You might consider coding your system in Excel until you get a gut feel for how backtesting works "under the hood." 


At that point, you might be able to find other software that fits your particular needs and style.

Tuesday, November 10, 2009


Workshop Follow-Up

Dear Ed,

Last week, I send my goals out to my support group and I notice that you are missed, so here it is. Thanks for everything.

I develop and utilize a trading system with 35% return with 0.8 MAR by February 1st, 2010.

1. I send out weekly emails logging my time spent, completed tasks, “AHA’s”, and miscellaneous info as I create my system.

2. In February my system is up and running. I give monthly updates that include my trading diary, and weekly balance and risk statements.

3. I spend two hours everyday working on my system: studying, writing code, back testing.

4. I hit my monthly progress goals.

5. I continually deal with my feelings and attend TT meetings.

My Support Team:

* Observe and comment on my growth as a trader and the creation of my system.

* Periodically, I throw out some questions. If you have an opinion on them, then please answer.

* Offer any suggestions, thoughts, or criticism you feel help this goal.


Nov 2009:

1. I purchase trading software.

2. I read two books on technical trading. I get comfortable with terminology and theories.

3. I utilize software. I create a trading system that I successfully back test.

4. I work two hours everyday on creating this system.

5. I open my futures trading account.

Dec 2009:

1. I develop relationships within my support group who help optimize my system.

2. I decide on the basic system structure.

3. I spend two hours a day writing code, back testing and studying.

Jan 2010:

1. My trading system is far enough along that I feel confident in using it to trade.

2. I deal with my feeling as I am trading.

3. I work two hours everyday writing code, back testing and studying.

Feb-Dec 2010

1. I keep a trading diary that I share with my support group.

2. I monitor my daily balance and risk statements.

3. I continue working two hours everyday writing code, back testing and studying.

Thank you for sharing your process.

Tuesday, November 10, 2009


A Note About His Throat


Dear Ed,

Thanks to everybody at the workshop for creating such a productive and helpful environment.

Going into the workshop one of my goals is to get rid of this constant discomfort in my throat. After reading books and studying a bit my plan is to go there, let it all hang out and do whatever it takes to experience these k-nots. In my mind, I feel I have an idea what my issues are and the process experiencing my emotions. While I am right about accomplishing this goal, I am totally wrong about what it is and how beautiful experiencing it is. Below is an outline of experiencing the gift of my throat discomfort.

I prepare for the hot seat by trying to “think about the feeling of thinking”. Trying to solve this impossible puzzle wears my mind down until it shuts down and I am able to FEEL!!! The next day on my first hot seat I keep story telling to avoid feeling. I keep trying to tell my story until I find that the cause and effect of my story does not matter, just my feeling in the now do. It is wonderful. I go through and experience the feeling in my throat. My “Aha” is simply feeling and that my mind has nothing to do with it and my stories are medicine. This is huge.

I still have discomfort in my throat. On Sunday morning at 2AM, after everyone has done their hot seats, I approach Ed and a let him know that I still have this discomfort in my throat. I do not expect the response I get. The following is what I remember of the conversation.


“You do not have any discomfort in your throat. That is nothing. It is just something you made up to bring attention to yourself. When you walk into a room you steal attention from everyone. I wonder what it is like to be your wife and child with you taking all the attention and not giving any. I can tell you did not get any attention as a child. I will tell you what, if you want the discomfort in your throat to go away, then serve others and give attention to others. If you are serious about wanting to get rid of your throat thing, then serve others. Before we meet tomorrow morning, give me a list of three people you served.”


(Obviously, Ed did a better job with SVO-p in his dialog).

It is 2AM and for the next 45 minutes I walk around the casino, looking for people to serve. I feel great and the world looks different. Everyone is more attractive and I enjoy walking around the smoky casino (I do not smoke and do not enjoy playing any of the games).

1) I help a drunk girl find her friends.

2) I helped a handicapped woman move her wheel chair around another chair.

3) Finally, I hold the elevator for a couple going to their room.

I cannot fall asleep until I write down some guidelines for serving others:

1) Respect their intentions.

2) Respect their private property.

3) Do not medicate them.

4) Do not get caught up in their drama.

5) Give my attention to them.

6) Do not compromise my values, integrity, or purpose.

My original goal is to get rid of my throat discomfort. Even better than getting rid of the discomfort, my throat is now an excellent tool for me to recognize when I can serve and give my attention to others.


I love it. Thank you.

Thank you for sharing your process.

Monday, November 9, 2009 


Workshop Update

Dear Ed (and Tribe),

My account. +1%. It goes up and down around 1% all week. I'm okay with that, as I see my longer-term stocks consistently doing better.


Some of my holdings, I've been in and out of for months , so they are consistently positive, without looking particularly good week to week. I am getting a better sense of what to hold onto, and what let fall away. The webbles and wobbles do not bother me much.

One of my goals is to get my concealed weapons license. I spent Saturday shooting and training. I am not good at guns. Guns are LOUD. (If anyone in my area would like to go for an afternoon at a local shooting range, I would be grateful for your company and advice.)

I am making progress with closure and precision. Some of the important paperwork got signed last week. On precision, I need to do more.

I woke up early Wednesday morning and had this bumper-sticker about my company in my head. So here it is. I only have until Tuesday to sell the company.


I may not achieve this goal on schedule. Progress is being made. [I have heard that it is better to shoot for the moon and miss than to shoot for your foot and hit it!] Sent by one of my support team.

Gym 5 days
Zero Travel
CSI 5 days.
Gun Training 1 (exhausting) day

Thank you for your support.

In general, you can sell a startup more easily once it demonstrates viability. 


You might consider assembling some pro-forma P&L projections and arrive at some idea of current value from discounting the earnings stream.




In The Matter of Selling Bananas

(and companies)


the buyer generally wants

to weigh them

before buying.





Clip: http://needled.files.wordpress.com/2009/




Monday, November 9, 2009


Considering Right Livelihood

Hi Ed,

I get very insightful suggestions in response to my last report, and implement some of them. Thank you.


I calculate stops and place them in the market. The trades go for me and I am still full of emotions and feel confused. I go flat in my trading account that I call “short term”. I try to relax and have some success. I notice feelings, I try not to judge them, I try not to act on them and have some success.

I play a trading simulation game. The game emphasizes position sizing and de-emphasizes predicting markets. I am curious what feelings come up as I play the game. I start out and the trades go against me. I notice I am in a hurry to enter in the info and get the result. I notice frustration (is the game broke, is the description wrong, is my strategy flawed) when I have a string of trades go against me. I notice I am excited and happy (feel warm and calm) when I get a large 10 –1 (or bigger) winner. I notice that I am in such a hurry to enter data I hit the enter key to soon and miss a 30 – 1 winner, at this I feel anger. I am getting a sense of how I act and what I feel with real trades and am able to notice and ask what is the positive intention?

I decide to do a real trade and place a stop. I get stopped out very fast and notice anger (I have a loss) and joy (I have a stop in and I have a small loss). I do another trade and pick a small target profit.


I leave the PC to make some food for my son who is home sick and this takes about 7 minutes. I return to my desk I find the trade history shows the trade passes my target and drops below it and is now at break-even. I notice anger or rage at this and just let it flow and get into it. I take some deep breaths and think about how great it is to be able to fix food for my son and how great it is that I can feel anger and rage, but does it make sense to feel this if I am following a sound plan and strategy for trading? Maybe if I am not following such a plan it does make sense to feel anger. But, if I have a method and a tested trusted system it seems there is not justification for anger or rage at just following the plan.


I wonder do I want to have a small window to exit or enter a trade?

So I go flat and play the trading game again. After many iterations I am getting a sense of what it is like to have a low win rate, a sting of losses and then a big winner to pay for it all. It feels cool. I want a system that gives these types of results. I know that this will be a longer-term system than I have ever really used or traded. I read my big wave description, I notice part 1 matches this style and I feel excitement about completing this part. I am about half way through the trading game. I intend to finish the game and then evaluate my big wave and my feelings and thoughts about having/using it and my previous years long foray into the world of short-term trades.

As a response to my last report Ed says:

You might be getting ready to examine finding some right-livelihood for yourself - something you can do to serve others. Questions about the meaning of life seem to melt away in the process of serving others.

I look up right–livelihood on the glossary page of the web site. Once again Ed’s response is making me stretch and deeply reflect. I notice I am thinking about what I do right now for others. I notice a small desire to list what I do for others. I wonder how short term trading fits in with right-livelihood? However, I am still processing this.

Thank you all for supporting me and sharing ideas.

Thank you for sharing your process.


Short-term (high frequency) trading generally provides excitement that serves as behavioral medications to cover up deeper feelings about right livelihood.


You might consider taking your feelings about <day=trading> to Tribe.




When You Connect with Right-Livelihood


your desire for frenetic activity









Clip: http://www.healthassociates.com/



Sunday, November 8, 2009 


Getting Into Balance


Dear Ed,

Thank you for being on my support team. My balance sheet at the end of this week is:

Assets:       $576,458.37
Liabilities:  $552,143.58
Net:           $24,314.79
500oz goal:   $548,375.00

Inflation is driving the dollar value of my house up, though not as fast as the value of my 500 ounces. The nominal increase in net worth
occurs while I do not have income and do have expenses.

I notice little resistance to compiling this balance sheet. I do notice that while I compile it on Friday evening, I wait until Sunday evening to send it out. I am not sure what is getting in my way.

I notice that I skip a number of days in the daily log. I wonder if rehab is most intensive in the first few days and then shallows out.

Thank you for sharing your process.

Sunday, November 8, 2009


Starting a Fund

Dear Ed (and Support Team),

Thank you all for being on my support team.

I commit to establishing  [Fund] with my husband in January 2010.

I commit to support on the business management and operational side of the fund.

Since the workshop, I work on the following:

1) the business plan;
2) the pro-forma financial statements of the company for the next 3 years; and
3) business and legal documentation;

From now and until the end of 2009 I intend to develop:
1) marketing and corporate material for the fund;
2) research and develop the website; and
3) research and further educate myself about financial markets and the managed futures industry.

Our goal is to have a minimum of $100,000 in trading capital for January 2010 to start trading the fund and reach $10M by the end of 2010.

I commit to sending bi-weekly reports outlining my progress.

I am open to support from the group in any way.

I appreciate all feedback and suggestions.

Thank you for your support.

Thank you for sharing your process.

Sunday, November 8, 2009


Completing Forms

Hello Ed,

I am one of two members of [City] tribe. Other member, is a very close friend of mine. We conduct meetings mostly every three weeks. During the sessions, we find it hard to follow the normal procedure as described in your book, or in your website. More importantly, I find it hard to go deep into the form, and the cheering of my friend sometimes annoy me, instead of helping.


While developing the forms, I come to a point between a premature form and a complete form. Hence, I never attain zero point. I have a problem with never achieving zero point.


During the last hot seat session, I develop a form, but can’t quite complete it. I can’t reach zero point. After the meeting, I started having problems mostly at work. Worst of all, some of my all diseases (all due to stress) also shows up.


I have open scars in my hand and fingers (had similar at college), I have chest pain (had similar during military service), I have back pain (had similar during my very stressed former job), and all these happen within last month.

My question is; do you have any experience about unfinished forms recalling the memories, and also digging out the covered very strong k-nots? And how can I cope with them?

Thank you

Thank you for sharing your process.


In general, in a two-man Tribe, you can make implicit deals to avoid going through forms you both wish to avoid.


A larger Tribe, say four or six people can help keep you on track.


You might consider taking your feelings about <stress> and <completing things> to Tribe.




Willingness to Experience Stress

tends to reduce the stress.


Resistance to experience stress

tends to increase the stress.






Saturday, November 7, 2009


Regrets About Missing Out


Hello. I first read about you in Market Wizards and then in various trading related books and publications. Over the past few years, I follow your FAQ and read The Trading Tribe book. Thank you for your work, which benefits me and so many others.

A brief background on me: I am 34 years old and a fellow trader, currently living in [City]. During the last eight years, I develop a Trend Trading System that I use to trade Futures.

As I read your FAQ, I find it amazing that you are able to help such a large number of people. Particularly encouraging are the accounts of many traders like me, who experience similar difficulties and improve their trading and lives through TTP.

I empathize with those Traders and others as they share their experiences, both positive and negative. Most of all, I am astounded by the positive results they receive from TTP.

Today, I read the feedback on FAQ from your recent workshop, which I regret not attending. I decide to get involved.

I read your announcement on the Breathwork weekend. It seems like a wonderful opportunity and I want to apply, but I am not a workshop graduate.

I commit to attend your next workshop and to attend a Trading Tribe meeting.

Thanks again for your work, including The Whipsaw song, my essential treatment for Marketitis!

Thank you for your encouragement.


You might consider reviewing your trading for evidence of missing out on major moves and then having feelings of regret.


If so, you might consider taking your feelings about <missing out> to Tribe.




Regret About Missing Out


might turn out to be

just one more thing


you regret missing.





Clip: http://k41.pbase.com/v3/91/491591/



Saturday, November 7, 2009


Daily MAR

Hi Ed

I study my mechanical trading system for stocks by moving day-by-day through my backtesting, while staying in the now for each trade. I plot MAR daily and observe a steady decline in MAR as my equity curve heads higher.

The specific question I am working on is "What are the best strategies for maintaining MAR at higher equity levels?".

I set relatively low minimum cash flow requirements for the dynamically selected portfolio; specifically, low in proportion to current equity. One result I notice is even if I limit my entry position size to 5% of entry bar volume, on exit almost half of all trades exceed 5% of exit bar volume. Almost 10% of all trades exceed a liquidity-challenged level of 25% of exit bar volume.

Thanks for reading,

MAR is a longitudinal metric.  I do not know the purpose of tracking MAR on a daily basis.  You might consider looking up the definition and purpose of MAR.

Saturday, November 7, 2009


Setting Boundaries with Children

Hello All,

I am writing to say that I would like to move my commitment out a few months. Since my return from Reno I have recognized that my Parental trading system has a few glitches that I would like to tune up. I notice that I set a boundary and then later, depending on how I "feel" may soften up on it or eliminate it all together. Inconsistent parenting I call it. I struggle with sometimes feeling that I am being too hard and at other times too easy.

I have realized that I can set a system up with parenting somewhat like I will do with stocks. I will set limits, stop losses, entry and exit points. A few ways I have thought of doing this is:

1) Sticking to a certain limit on daily TV viewing. I generally try to stay at 1-hour although someday when we are home more I allow more. I try to keep the shows fun and light, not full of shooting and violence.

2) Then I wonder how much WII (video games) I should allow. At this point it is about once a week, I vacillate on this enormously, again deciding on how I feel. Guilty for not letting him play something he really enjoys and happy that he enjoys it so much.

3) I get so exhausted a great deal of time and feel that I may not be available enough emotionally and then sometimes get angry and frustrated because I don't know where to buy more energy. Some of the things above are a babysitter for me while I rest.

4) I struggle trying to have more communities for us and then get frustrated if my son doesn't enjoy the group I am trying to connect too...

5) I am adopted, it, along with my upbringing has been excruciatingly painful. My son is adopted. I worry that he will struggle as an adult as I have. I have struggled a great deal with self worth, relationships, self sabotage, must I say more. If cause and effect isn't true than this concern could turn to bliss:)

6)I fear that I have too high of expectations and then too low. I kept my son out of kindergarten this year. He is a summer birthday. I feel good about that and I think he enjoys being one of the older instead of one of the younger children.

7)I make this too hard. I tend to "awfulize" and be the victim. I want this to stop. Set up a trading system with my son... and follow it.

I commit to deliver that system in the next two weeks to include:

consistent bedtime
meal times
tv times
community events
time for us together.

Primarily I worry about support, my family are addicts of one sort or another so for role models and support I look elsewhere. I worry about when I am gone and he has no siblings or father...I contemplate adopting a second child.

Thank you for your listening and support!

Thank you for sharing your process.


You might consider taking your feelings about <managing your child> and <communicating with your child> to Tribe.

Saturday, November 7, 2009


Tribe Suggests Resources


in the description of the Rocks Process from the message of "Un-Lock-ing Resources"(2-nd November 2009), the author says that the Tribe members suggested resources.

Can tribe members suggest resources? I thought they cannot, they just validate the feelings of the sender. Then, only the sender may find his pro-active resources.

In helping the Sender develop Forms, the Receivers encourage and provide a Healing Field of Acknowledgment.


In the Rocks Process, the entire Tribe may suggest resources.

Friday, November 6, 2009


Finding the Critical Incident

Hi Ed,

I notice that a big part of the Rocks Process is finding the critical incident -- intensifying and freezing feelings, and finding a memory of an incident that associates with these feelings. Sometimes a Hot Seat shows up with a critical incident all ready to go.


He may say, I had this dream last night, and the feelings in it reminded me of an incident in my childhood, and I want to work through that incident and come up with better resources.

I wonder if you can share any advice on processing a Hot Seat like that.

In general, you can keep encouraging forms until they lead you to the critical incident.



Forms Can lead the Way




Clip: http://www.advance-counseling-denver-



Friday, November 6, 2009


Sprouting Intimacy

Hi Ed,

Before the Workshop I am stuck in a number of important areas in my life. I want more intimacy with my wife but cannot take the necessary steps to get it.


I run a hedge fund and want to continue building its infrastructure but cannot make any meaningful progress. I want to improve my health by eating better and exercising but cannot get myself to do either.


Instead of taking action, I find myself using every free moment researching a very dire subject -- the possibility of a future economic collapse. Almost every night I sequester myself in my office and research this topic. Though I find the subject matter depressing, I immerse myself in it and become filled with dread. Yet, I do not do anything to protect myself. And I am so consumed with my research that I do not spend any time improving my marriage, my fund, or my health. I am depressed and bewildered by my inability to take action. I feel very alone as I spend night after night secluded in my office.

At the Workshop I take the hot seat and experience these same feelings. As I experience my forms I remember an instance in my youth when I experienced a similar feeling.


I am six or seven years old and my mother is forcing me to eat Brussels sprouts for lunch. I hate the taste and refuse to eat them, prompting my mother to verbally berate me. Eventually I eat the Brussels sprouts and throw them up, producing even further drama in the household.


Through this process I recall my father receiving similar abuse from my mother at various times during my youth. When under this stress my father's response is to immediately leave the scene and disappear alone into another room in the house. I realize that my current behavior is very similar to my father's. I am responding to the stress in my life by secluding myself in my office and medicating my feelings with research into a very consuming topic. As the rocks process continues I gain new resources for responding when these feelings arise. When experiencing these feelings I now can respond in productive ways that encourage progress. I am no longer dependent on a single response -- seclusion -- that inherently limits my ability to grow.

The next morning I awake feeling free. I no longer feel stuck, depressed, and alone. When I call my wife that morning she tells me about something very strange that happens the night before. Well after dinner my five year old daughter suddenly asks to go the playground at her elementary school.


Since starting school in September my daughter is unsuccessful at swinging across a set of hanging rings without falling. Now she wants to go to the playground despite the darkness outside. My wife initially refuses her request. My daughter begs and pleads with my wife, who eventually relents. With only the light from the car's headlamps guiding her way, my daughter tries again and again to navigate the rings without falling. My wife estimates about a dozen attempts. Finally my daughter succeeds and then promptly asks to be taken home. My daughter's palms are rubbed raw from the effort, but she is happy about her accomplishment and beams with pride. I confirm with my wife that this episode occurs at 7:30 eastern, which corresponds to when I am taking the hot seat. At first I am dumbstruck upon hearing the story. I then feel overwhelmed with joy at the thought of my child's effort. It appears that my daughter is now unstuck as well.

When I return home from the Workshop I no longer spend hours every night alone in my office. Instead, I spend more time with my wife and feel much closer to her than I have in a very long time. I go to the gym several times. I begin eating better food and lose six pounds. I stop researching about the possibility of economic collapse and construct a plan for protecting my assets. I formulate a realistic time table for building out my fund given my current time demands. I am no longer stuck.

Thank you, Ed, for once again supporting my process and assisting my pursuit of Right Livelihood.


Thank you, Workshop Tribe, for providing such a caring and supportive environment in which to grow.

Thank you for sharing your process.





If you don't deal with these ...




 ... your daughter might not be able


to do this!








Clip: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_DZH2cmCoois/





Thursday, November 5, 2009


Starting on the Path

Dear Mr. Seykota,

I have received the "The Trading Tribe" book. Thank you very much.

I will send in my information to start a local trading tribe in my area once I finished reading your book.

I have been following your FAQ for sometime and have some AHA moments. Your book will help me to further understand your TTP process.

I feel honor to be able to learn from you and to promote your TTP process.

Thanks for sharing with us.

Thank you for your support.

Thursday, November 5, 2009



Dear Ed,

If making a commitment is supposed to get feelings & thoughts to ‘bubble up’ to the surface then I achieve this aim. . . . BIG TIME!!!


Now that the workshop afterglow has more-or-less dissipated, I find myself in a panic over my commitment. I start to feel overwhelm, doubt, confusion & embarrassment. My sleep pattern is disrupted for a few days. This manifests as tightness, shaking and a ‘butterflies’ feeling in my chest as I think about it & as I write this report.

I will explain, but first let me put this into some sort of context.

My goal is USD$2M by the end of 2010 such that I can begin my Long term Futures trading program in the manner that I have back tested and outlined in my commitment

My current trading account (consisting of cash and equities) at today’s prices and today’s forex rates is USD$263K.

My Target account is USD$2M by end of 2010

The Gap between the two=USD$1.737M

Therefore, to get current funds to my target requires a return of 660% on those funds in 1 year!!!

Possible, but hugely, HUGELY improbable.

I certainly don’t want to do anything stupid and/or risky in order to try and get close to this type of return. I am conscious of the fact that huge returns generally entail huge risks.

I then contemplate a particular business opportunity that’s has been on my mind for awhile, in order to generate cash, but decide that this is not a good idea for me in this current economic climate. Scratch that.

I recall recently talking to friends in order to pool our resources together in order to start a trading club. They are keen but I sense that they see only the profits to be made and have no real appreciation of the potential drawdowns / losses that are likely to be incurred. I can see them bailing out at the first sign of trouble (& then blaming me!). As the old adage goes, “The best way to lose a friend is to go into business with a friend”

I, therefore scratch this option as well.

Here is where my panic & doubt & embarrassment comes in. I make a commitment and suddenly I realize that there’s a pretty good chance I won’t be able to deliver.

Ahhhhrggghhh !!!

So what to do?

Someone suggests that I simply trade with what I have & cannot understand what the issue is. Surely USD$263K is enough to begin trading futures?

According to my testing, to trade my long term trend following systems I require wide stops and the idea is to trade a large portfolio of markets to ensure I won’t miss any of the large trends that occur every year or so. I need to be in all markets and I need to be able to take small risks to weather the 20 or so consecutive losses that are out there somewhere (or the next major ‘9-11’ type disruption)

I have traded futures before (years ago) and what got me unstuck was not so much following a system but more-so not having an account size large enough so that I can follow the system at the appropriate bet size and to be able to take all the trades.

In today’s (wild?) markets I view the minimum account size for trading a large portfolio with a long term trend system as being $500K and that’s with risking 2%!

My tolerance is for 1% max with preferably half of that as being ideal.

I’m aware that I may be making excuses & justifications here, but I mention these concerns as I want to start futures trading and at the same time I want to give myself every possible advantage before I begin.

Large account sizes are a huge, HUGE advantage.

I may, however, be living in a fantasy world. I need to make plans with what I have at this moment rather than what I wish I had at this moment.

Yes, of course I can look into CFD’s or minis or commodity ETF’s (or combo of all three). There are pros and cons to each of these as well (i.e. CFD trading a.k.a. ‘bucket shop’ trading, lack of liquidity in minis(?), tracking errors in ETF’s etc etc).

I can even look at shortening the trade timeframe of my systems so that my position sizing stops aren’t as large. This will allow me to enter more markets at the cost of more false moves.

It’s all give and take I suppose.

Another suggestion is to consider starting a fund & raising capital. This is a very good option for some. For my good self, I’d much rather prefer bubonic plague than have to deal with clients. DEFINITELY SCRATCH THAT!

In sum;

All my long term trend systems are backtested & ready to go live. The only thing missing is an account size large enough to implement my strategy.

Obviously, there is some way to do this but I am unable to see it (other than what I have mentioned immediately above).

I know what I want but I don't know how to go about getting it.

This is the source of my doubt & confusion.

If anyone is able to see something here that I can’t, I’m happy to receive any and all advice.

(Usually the things I can't see tend to be right smack in front of my face!)

Thanks all, for your support & guidance.

Thank you for sharing your process.


You might consider taking your feelings about <serving others> to Tribe.




Bubonic Plague


Rats carry fleas

that carry the bacterium,

Yersinia Pestis.


Painful buboes appear on the body,

typically the neck.


Other tissues suffer necroses.


Death generally follows infection

in about 12-15 hours.





Clip: http://www.nlm.nih.gov/exhibition/



Thursday, November 5, 2009


Workshop Follow-up

Getting In Line With the System

Dear Ed,

At the workshop I committed to:

1) taking the funds that I had previously told myself were available for trading and paying them into my trading account

2) calculating core equity using the full amount of capital available and scaling my positions into this core equity amount

3) creating a variation spreadsheet to track the differences between my system signals, system position size and my actual positions and sending this file every Sunday.

This commitment was part of my goal to give up my behavior of not putting myself into situations where I have a risk of failing or losing.

After the workshop I realized that to create the variation file I needed a clearly defined system to compare against. This concerned me because I had open trades that came from 3 different systems and I had not tested all 3 to the same level of diligence.

After a while I realized that the one system that I had tested most thoroughly and had the fewest doubts on was the long term breakout system. This system is tested across the major FX markets and stock indices. I decided to use this system as the one to commit to and measure variance against.

At this stage I questioned how comprehensive my testing had been. It had been completed in a combination of Excel and Beesoft which made it difficult to see results across a portfolio of trades and I was particularly concerned about correlation and how much to risk per position. However, I have owned Mechanica since September and so I decided to re-test the system fully in M. This created some technical problems because not all my data had been moved into M and I had to manage some format changes but by Saturday afternoon my data was in M.

I then ran the system tests again on individual markets, sectors and finally everything as one portfolio. I used different bet sizes, maximum risk limits and sector limits to see if I was right about the system's characteristics and what level of bet size to use. I re-read Ed's risk article and parts of Ralph Vince's Money Management book.

By Sunday night I was comfortable that I had been diligent with my testing but I became very uncomfortable with a number of issues. I was already in a number of positions that were profitable and in the same direction of the BO system but for smaller bet size, I worried that by re-scaling now I would be potentially turning profitable positions into net losses because the new trades would out-weigh the old ones in a reversal. Also, I would have to enter into a number of markets weeks, and in some cases months, after the original trade signals were given. I worried that I would be entering into these markets at the wrong time.


I imagined people at my broker talking to themselves about how I had been stupid and suckered into the rallies. Finally, I worried about what to do with my trades in markets that were profitable but were in markets not tested on the BO system and were based on other systems .

Eventually I realized that all my back testing in M was based on particular start dates and M assumes you enter into the markets that day regardless of when the original signals were given so I was not doing anything different from the back tests. So, I decided to:

1) convert my existing stock index positions (based on cross-over system) into the BO system with one exception,

2) enter into the indices where I had no current positions

3) add-on to my existing FX positions (already based on BO system but using smaller risk size)

4) open trades in the FX markets where I had no current positions

5) where possible convert my spot positions into futures to avoid financing costs e.g close spot JPY and open Dec JPY future position.

These steps would eliminate variances with the BO system and I settled on a maximum heat of 50% of core equity which came to individual bet sizes of 3.125% of core.

I also decided that I wanted to keep positions in Copper, Gold, Eurodollars and Corn because they were profitable and I have clear rules for exiting them that I follow. I also decided to keep one particular position in the SP500 based on a long term cross-over system because I am comfortable that it is based on good testing and has a positive expectation. I decided that I would account for all these variance positions by setting aside the equity at risk from them in my core-equity calculation. Once these trades have run their course I will not re-use the systems unless I have done testing to the same level as the BO system and worked out the effects on total risk.

On Monday I discovered that my bank would not be able to move my funds until Tuesday so I decided to calculate core-equity for the open of business Tuesday morning and scale-in then. I was very emotional on Monday with feelings of dizziness and sickness. During Monday I worked on creating a variation file.

On Tuesday morning I calculated core equity and entered into the indices trades according to my system without any real feelings or resistance. However, I could not bring myself to enter into the FX trades. I realized that the problem for me was the aggregate bet size and the fear that this would be a bad time to enter. On Tuesday night I went through the historical charts and picked around 20 obviously bad days to enter because they corresponded with trend peaks. I then used these dates as start dates in M. I found that while these dates would all lead to a high drawdown early-on, the system still recovered and had a MAR > 0.4. Even so, I was not sure how I would be able to stick to the system if I lost equity so quickly from scaling-in so I decided that I would take the FX signals but reduce the bet size by half. I entered into the FX trades on Wednesday morning and then updated the variance file.

The variance file is not the format I originally envisioned and does not cover every variable I need to measure myself against but it captures my main deviations from the system. I am working on the new format which will be linked to my trade tracking spreadsheet and will send it on Sunday.

I have found this whole process difficult but enlightening and now my positions are on I feel quite comfortable letting the system run. On reading this mail through I realize there is some issue about a "bad time" to enter. My next steps are to produce a more complete variation file and fully back-test my cross-over parameters across a range of markets.

I hope you are all well and thank you for your support.

Thank you for sharing your process.


You might consider taking your feelings about <appearing stupid> to Tribe.





Some of The Best Trades


appear "stupid" to others


until they catch on.




Clip: http://cientifica.eu/blog/wp-content/



Thursday, November 5, 2009


Workshop Feedback - Getting Completions



I watch the hot seats for a day or so before I step up with my issue. I notice the power of willingness, and of the supportive field provided by the team. But I feel my issue is not that big a deal and maybe I will 'choke'.

There are 4 people in my hot seat team. We make sure we have enough experienced people before we start.

My issue is that when I finish something, or do something notable, or am successful, or generally if I do something active, I feel bad - I feel
wrong, invalidated, condemned, guilty, shamed. I use an example to explain to my team how very intense these feelings are. They do not make
sense but they exist.

I spend a *lot* of time doing things that have little risk of triggering those feelings: reading, researching stuff on the Internet, observing,
etc. Example: I had to rent storage space due to the vast number of books I own (and have read!). I do get stuff done but it requires the constant application of will power which is exhausting.

In the hot seat I adopt a physical position and movement that reflects this feeling, and the team encourages me to "ramp it up", "that's
great", "do more of that". Surprisingly quickly I am in tears, consumed by my shame and guilt and a deep sense of condemnation. We push into this feeling to make sure I fully experience it with maximum intensity and this continues for a while. I noticed my reluctance to fully experience the feeling but the team supports me and I do experience it fully.

Then someone asks "When did you first feel this way?". A scene appears in my mind, when I was about 4 years old. I have made a 'train' from
some kitchen utensils and my mother is storming in as she realizes I have moved her stuff. Recrimination, condemnation, "I don't need this",
etc. It is not just a visual thing - I feel the carpet on my knees, the warmth from the wood fire, the texture of the couch I am leaning on, even the breath from my mother as she shouts and cries, my tears on my cheeks.

We role-play the scene and I learn about the 'rock' my father gave me to deal with this. It basically involves being passive and not doing
anything without being told to do it. My mother also adds the suggestion to sit quietly and read. When I am given the rock and do the role-play I
go and sit quietly and read. I feel safe and the feeling of condemnation goes away. But I look longingly on my little 'train' that I was so proud
of making.

We brainstorm new resources and the team comes up with some great ideas. I put them into the rock and we run the role plays again. I politely reject the original rock and accept the new one. It works brilliantly.

At this moment I suddenly have a huge AHA! The condemnation that I have felt all my life does not actually exist in any real sense. It has no validity and suddenly it has no power. I feel waves of joy as this realization courses through my body.

The team member who plays my mother and I have a big hug at the end. I feel great.

The upshot is that this turns out not to be a minor issue at all. I am suddenly freed from the fear that doing things will make me feel
terrible. This unleashes a torrent of action and productivity.

Even before the trip to my next destination after the workshop is complete I have written up my commitments. I am tired and have a cold -
normally this is more than enough of an excuse to buy a magazine and defer the work. I email my boss at work saying I need to cut my work
hours by 1 day a week to make room for trading activities. When I get back I meet with him and he agrees to the new plan (it is one day a week
and time time off over Xmas rather than a week a month but the result is the same). His comment was striking when I thanked him for being supportive: he said that it was clear that it was going to happen, and the only question was how we manage it. The power of clear intention!

I have so much done in the few days since returning from the workshop. I was at a conference after the workshop and only got home this Monday. I have my positions all reviewed and appropriate adjustment trades made, got feedback on my commitments and issued a final version to my support team. I am up to date on my administration and paperwork from when I was away - normally this would take several weeks. I have cancelled time-wasting activities to free up more time on the weekend. I have made
good progress on setting up my new laptop to replace the old one with the recently fried motherboard.

Now when I finish something I feel good - It's "Great! Now what's Next?"

My reading is down 75% to what I think is an appropriate level. Web surfing is also down to a level that makes sense.

This morning I wake up at 4:45am (I normally get up at 5am) brimming with enthusiasm and desire to get started. It is amazing how much you
can get done when you are not fighting yourself all the time.

Thanks to you Ed for creating this process. Thanks to my hot seat team. I feel eternally grateful to all of you. I have my new rock with me now, and it feels very precious.

During the workshop I see many others going through similar transformations.

This could be the start of something really big!

Thank you for sharing your process.

Thursday, November 5, 2009


Workshop Feedback & Summary


Dear Ed,

Some of the things I learn at the workshop that are big surprises.

1. How far and hard Ed pushes things. In the right livelihood exercise having completed several iterations of taking our succinct statements of
right livelihood and testing it with other people, most of us feel we are close enough and are pretty well done if not fed up with it and bored. It turned out Ed is just getting started and we do several more iterations. Takeout: don't be happy with a half solution - push it as far and as hard as you can.

2. Willingness. Similarly when people are avoiding an issue, or unwilling to proceed with the hot seat, Ed is facing up to that and calling it out. Not in a hostile way but firmly and clearly nonetheless. "So, what did your wife say when you spoke to her as we agreed?". Takeout: don't let it slide with evasions - see what *is*.

3. The right livelihood exercise showed me clearly I have only some half-baked ideas in this area and have a lot of work to do to define my right livelihood.

4. The table distinguishing the standard world view from TTP:

Dynamics: Cause-effect versus system
Time: Past and future versus now
Feelings: Judging versus experiencing
Will: Will power versus willingness
Strategy: Analytics versus trend
Agreements: Trust versus Taste
Ownership: Public versus private
Emotional resources: medicate versus activate
Relationships: Control versus intimacy
Transfer: Entitlement versus negotiation
Explain: Blame versus intention = results
Economics: Debt versus savings.

Ideally a person can access resources from both views.

5. The power of agreement in confirming and cementing intention. Example:  the support teams for following up on our commitments from the workshop.

6. The power of the massive validation and support during the hot seat process. The power of the reenactments of the formative situation and of the reenactments with the new resources. The amazing ability of the team to come up with good new proactive resources. The ability of experienced process managers to run the hot seat / rocks process creatively.

7. My ability to learn and function even when sick and sleep-deprived. I now have an expanded view of what is possible.

8. Subsequent to the workshop I experience several times the power of my new intentions to shift how supportive the world is.

9. I now have a cure for jet lag which I try at the workshop for the first time. It works going to the workshop and coming back home. This makes it possible to show up for the workshop the day before and be back at work and productive the day after arriving home. The cure is very
simple: Before your first breakfast in the new location, do not eat for 12-15 hours. This resets your body clock.

10. Systems ideas. I think this has a lot of potential. Interestingly Charlie Munger is also big on thinking in systems and looking for second
order effects; Jim Rogers and George Soros also.

Some more quotes:

"Things can only be done in the now. Only the now is real".

"Whipsaws are what makes it all possible".

"Your tolerance for risk defines your return".

Thanks for a great workshop, an unforgettable and life-changing experience.

Thank you for your support and for your recounting of some of the events of the Workshop.

Thursday, November 5, 2009




Dear Ed,

Why don't you put a TV studio in your home?

this way you drive seminar attendance
and PR for your book etc....

I could help you w that.

your responses are wild enough
that you would prob make a great guest.

How cool is that !


Then I could be the host, the guest, and likely the only viewer.

Thursday, November 5, 2009


Ed-isms from the Workshop


Dear Ed,

I thought you would like these.


"Buy the dip, sell the crash".

"Pull the trigger, especially when you don't feel like it".

"These markets are just getting started right now".

"What s your 'check out' strategy, that enables you to avoid doing something?".

"... getting to feel the thing you never want to feel and maybe find it's your friend".

"You've already got a system. The [point] of most of your trades is to make your feelings go away".

"... replacing medicinal tendencies with proactive tendencies".

"... drugs are [usually] medicinal and used to suppress feelings".

"You are a whys guy". (to someone asking "why")

"Pain is your resistance to what's going on".

"I don't trade the short side much. The risk / reward ratio is [usually] terrible".

"I make a distinction between the house's money and my money".

"1. Find out what you want to do.

2. Find someone who knows how to do it
and follow their advice.

3. Deal with the feelings".

Thank you for sharing my process.

Thursday, November 5, 2009


Giving Up Control

Dear Ed,

During the workshop my commitment was to Start a Fund by the end of January 2010 and keep a profitability of 50%. I know that I can get that but first I have to improve and to change my commitment which is: "Give Up Control".

Since my first workshop in April 2009 I learned that I do not have to have any dramas and to give up control about my kids or my wife. After the workshop I could experience that in practice, one example is that if my kid does not want to go to school, that is ok, I am fine with that, so I am able to show him that if he does not go to school, he will not see his friends, his teacher and at the end he decides if he wants to go or not, and I can tell you: It works! He decides that it is better to go to school.

But I still have to practice that a lot. My commitment is to GIVE UP CONTROL of everything, my family, my friends and my trading system.

Thanks you Ed for the wonderful insights, you are much more than a good person who serves others, for me you are a Good Father.

I will keep you guys updated once a week about my commitment. I will also prepare some metrics about that.

In TTP, part of the process of giving up <control> is to see the positive intention of <control>.


You might consider taking your feelings about <control> to Tribe.




A game Without a Controller


becomes rather pointless.






Clip: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/




Thursday, November 5, 2009


Post Workshop:  Blissful Solutions


Dear Ed,

You put on a great workshop, and I really appreciate it. I arrived with goals in mind, and the workshop showed me the path to address them. Your insights, stamina and effort are remarkable!

I am working on blissful solutions for risk management, start dependency problems, and a way to turn a methodology into a system. I'm glad to have a support group!

Thanks Ed

Thank you for sharing your process.

Thursday, November 5, 2009


Random Walk and Trend Following

Hey there Ed (or Ed's assistant?),

I am at a crossroads.

Hopefully you have time to read and consider a response, which might help me.

Some background on me: I,

- live in [City] and have been learning about trading for a long time.

- have read extensively and considered various schools of thought on financial markets.

- have read Michael Covel's books.

- have read Niederhoffer's books, as well as his opinions on his website.

- have read Schwager, Kaufmann and van Tharp.

- have NOT read 'the trading tribe' book, yet, though it seems a logical next step, considering what I describe here:

It seems that I was at one stage convinced that trend following works and was actively designing different systems to find out which was a good fit for me.

However, I am also enrolled again at University, studying finance and Economics, to immerse myself in the subject matter.

At University, my lecturers and professors are adamant that trend-following is a fallacy and statistically it doesn't work.

The incidence of successful trend-followers is best explained by the concept of survivorship bias and plain luck, according to them.

Their arguments seem convincing. They are intelligent people for whom I hold a great deal of respect.

My lecturers maintain that the market average is nigh on impossible to outperform long term, consistently, duplicable.

I have been advised to read 'A Random Walk on Wall Street' to verify these assertions.

Concepts such as the random walk theory and efficient market hypothesis seem quite logical and contradict what I once took for granted about being able to generate returns greater than the market average.

Compounding this are assertions that Technical analysis fails, according to various sources.

Here's my problem:

I do not know what to believe, anymore.

I am perfectly capable of designing a series of non-correlated trend following systems using amibroker, BUT I have no faith that any such system will not just be a statistical fluke, if they do work.

I am continually doubtful whether success at trading is merely down to luck.

I have lost faith in what is certain, what is achievable, and what is not luck, in terms of trading.

These things all combine to completely sap my motivation.

I cannot move forward while I have these very real and unresolved doubts.

Please could you share some insights?

Your letter is consistent with having k-nots about making decisions.  Such k-nots may entrain behavior that may override your system logic, particularly at decision points.


In some cases, the anxiety around indecision may serve to medicate (cover-up) deep feelings about right-livelihood and right-relationship.


You might consider taking your feelings about <making decisions> to Tribe.




Anxiety May Serve


to cover-up deeper issues.








Clip: https://www.dankennedy.com/blog/












Wednesday, November 4, 2009


Terrible Fear

Dear Ed,

I am doing so far paper trading (for about 1 year). I was trying to build my trading system for some time, but I was not happy with it. Now I have some kind of system, but I know it needs to be better, let's say more clearer for me, so far it seems to me the best way : swing trading.


Anyway I would like to know what I am actually
doing. I was reading books mostly from Larry Williams (not only), who is my favorite writer, I love him (his style of trading)...but recently I started reading books and books about trading from others...big impact was from books of Van Tharp...and recently I bought Market Wizards (J. Schwager). I read the chapter called Ed Seykota

:-) and I was petrified with your statements about some kind of inner feeling in the market.


Realizing that you can not grasp the market with indicators and studies, that you need to have something more. I was little depressed, coz I dedicated so much time studying and now (I believe you are right with your statement) it seems to be all waste of time.


I am very interested in NLP, in stuff about feeling the emotions, that I discovered some time ago, before I started with studying markets. The process you are describing (TTP process) is also similar with Carlos Castaneda's description of deleting the past in his book "The Active side of Infinity". I was very into Carlos Castaneda in the past.

I am writing you, coz I am feeling strong desire to write you. I am feeling right now insecure about my future as a futures trader.


It is terrible feeling mixed with fear that all the work I did could be useless, anyway if I am looking to past I can see some experiences that led me to trading and the psychology (I am very interested in) is also very interconnected with trading. I am looking for some signal - maybe I want to hear from you:-) : "Stay here, you will be good trader"

In TTP we hold that every feeling has a positive intention.


You might consider taking your feelings about <fear> to Tribe.

Wednesday, November 4, 2009


Guiding The Meditation

Hi Ed,

I have an interesting thought of a guided meditation CD based on The Essentials card. I have been meditating and I explore how to completely assimilate Ride Your Winners.


I envision this also pertaining to life in general in that the CD could also incorporate other TTP positive guidance.


Just a thought.


Wednesday, November 4, 2009


Pattern Recognition

Dear Ed,

I am researching how to develop practical pattern recognition software and how to apply it to enhance a mechanical trend trading system.

I'm unclear how to do this and feel confused on how to move forward. I don't have a feel for what can really work and what's frivolous.

I wonder if you're open to discussing this by phone, and if so, when is a good time to call.

Here's a list of topics I discover in my research:

Preprocessing (filtering)
Scaling Issues / Normalization
Boundaries, Transition detection
Sliding Window
Template approach - rule-based classifier
K Nearest Neighbor

I notice various system dynamics stages occurring in futures prices series':

Exponential Growth
Exponential Decay
S-Shaped Growth

I notice patterns seem to progress through stages, transitioning from one stages to the next.

It seems to me that if software can recognize the "now" stage, and common stage sequences that it may be useful to place bets according to probabilities of continuation, etc.

For example, one pattern sequence I notice is Exponential Growth, followed immediately by Exponential Decay.

Yes, I think this might be a fruitful line of research.





Ocuhi Illusion


What you see is what you see.







Clip: http://www.michaelbach.de/ot/



Wednesday, November 4, 2009


Seeing it with Their Eyes

Dear Ed,

I thought this essay was very valuable. I think it applies to many interpersonal relationships, not only parent-child.



In practice ... unconditional acceptance by parents as well as teachers should be accompanied by “autonomy support”: explaining reasons for requests, maximizing opportunities for the child to participate in making decisions, being encouraging without manipulating, and actively imagining how things look from the child’s point of view.

The last of these features is important with respect to unconditional parenting itself. Most of us would protest that of course we love our children without any strings attached. But what counts is how things look from the perspective of the children — whether they feel just as loved when they mess up or fall short.


I wonder what kinds of results you are getting with this method.

Wednesday, November 4, 2009


Traders Window

Hi Ed!

I saw a post on the FAQ that a contributor has read your book "traders window". I am very interested in reading it if possible! Can I buy it through pay pal as your trading tribe book?

The book you mention is not currently in print. I am considering publishing it.

Tuesday, November 3, 2009



Hi Ed,

In case you wondered what could be done with a dollar these days, it makes interesting folding paper.








Clip: http://art.commongate.com/post/




I wonder if you can fold a dollar a bird that  rises.

Tuesday, November 3, 2009


Big Wave Update

Hi Ed,

I have a change …

Big Wave Modification

1. Love Unconditionally and remain willing to release obstacles / false beliefs / rocks that hinder Unconditional Love / Receiving

2. Develop an Attitude of Gratitude

3. Live Debt Free

4. Maintain an Ideal BMI for my height utilizing good nutrition and exercising at least 5 times per week

I spend time with different children, mostly listening. My oldest son is getting clear after a short time in rehab and I communicate with him often. I feel very grateful for this progress in his life. I spend time meditating off / on. I begin to understand your comments on meditation. I notice obstacles / anxiety / worry during times of meditation but stay mindful of the moment of now and continue. I notice incremental benefits as I make this a priority.

I spend less and notice ways to save more.

I workout 3-5 times per week for about an hour (20 min weights / 30 min walking/aerobic). I focus on eating more vegetables/fruits and reducing sugar / fats. My weight is 232 lbs with a target of 190 lbs.

Thank you for sharing your process.

Tuesday, November 03, 2009


Conning Pinocchio

Dear Ed,


I was sent this and thought you would be interested in it.


[Name of Person], the developer of the trend following [Name of System] System, asked that I contact you on his behalf. [Firm] is an independent commodity / futures brokerage firm established in [year]. We have a passion for meeting the goals of each investor and have worked closely with [Name] for many years.

Ed Seykota is a hugely successful commodities trader who pioneered trend following trading systems. He also keeps a very low profile. You will not see him on CNBC, so any sort of public appearance where he can distil some of his wisdom is a rare gift. His 6 simple, beautiful, and truthful rules to become a good trend follower can be found in his "Whipsaw" song.

1. Ride your winners
2. Cut your losses
3. Manage your risk
4. Use stops
5. Follow your system
6. Trash the news

OK, most of you may have seen Ed Seykota's Whipsaw song before, but for those few who haven't, here it is. The main message of the song is to stick to the rules, which is a fundamental aspect of trend following systems. Trading should be fun, like this, no? No more bluegrass, I promise.

Some More Ed Seykota - Quotes

* Win or lose, everybody gets what they want out of the market. Some people seem to like to lose, so they win by losing money.

* To avoid whipsaw losses, stop trading.

* Risk no more than you can afford to lose and also risk enough so that a win is meaningful.

* Trend following is an exercise in observing and responding to the ever-present moment of now.

* Fundamentalists and anticipators may have difficulties with risk control because a trade keeps looking 'better' the more it goes against them.

* Until you master the basic literature and spend some time with successful traders, you might consider confining your trading to the supermarket.

* I don't predict a non-existing future.

Ed Seykota has been trading trend following systems for over 30 years. The [Name] System follows Ed Seykota's 6 trading rules. [Name] trades in about 70 domestic and international markets from both the long and short side of the market. Suggested minimum investment: $100,000

Some of the keys to successful trend following are patience and discipline. Trend following has worked in the past and will perform into the future for a simple reason: trends exist and they can be traded up and down for profit.

[Firm] played a role in the development of [Name] System and is the only brokerage firm trading it. The right system changes everything. Start trading it and I am confident that you will be more than satisfied.

Ask me about our report showing a 27 year back test for [System]. Should you have any further questions, please call me.

Day traders work for the markets - Trend traders let the markets work for them, the trend is your friend. How? By reacting to the markets and not predicting them.

Thank you for the head's up.


The purveyor of this letter has no authorization from me to use my name or to imply any connection between my teachings and his offerings.


I also note various inaccuracies in his letter, including claiming my item #6 is "Trash the News."  In fact, I do not number the essentials and the last one is "File the News."


You might consider implementing some risk control before you engage the services of someone who demonstrates inaccuracy and who implies endorsements that do not actually exist.




John Worthingthon "Honest John" Foulfellow

and Gideon


are the fox and cat scoundrels

who inveigle Pinocchio

to quit school and travel to

Pleasure Island.


At the last sighting,

they are resurrecting their act

as purveyors of the Pleasure Island Fund.













Clip: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2599/



Tuesday, November 3, 2009


Wants to Present Stuff


I would like to show our stuff to [Name]. You have no idea how far it has come. Would you be open to brokering a meeting? I will fly down to [City] or wherever [Name] is.

I recall seeing some materials and concluding they are not ready for presentation.


You are correct that I have no idea about the evolution of the materials or their current condition. As such, I have no basis for formulating a new opinion.

Monday, November 2, 2009


Un-lock-ing Resources

Hi Ed,

At the workshop I did the rocks process.


My issue is a father who used intimidation, yelling and force to try to control me. He grew up on a farm and I think his parenting followed a similar idea one would use to break a horse or any other animal. He seemed intent on getting us under control at an early age.


As the rocks process started I talked about my issue and the picture I saw in my mind was when I was a kid and took a lock that did not belong to me. I was walking in an alley when I saw the lock hanging on an open door and I took it off the door and walked away turning the key watching the key unlock the lock.


I was fascinated watching this action wondering how this worked. I lived about 2 blocks from the alley and as I was nearing the front yard to my home my dad spotted me and came out to see what I had. He ask me where I got the lock. At that time I realized I was in trouble and being scared of what he was going to do I lied and told him I found it in the ditch.


He was glaring down at me and yelling that I was lying and I just froze unable to speak and just zoned out waiting for it to finally be over while he yelled and screamed at me.


Through the years many times I have tried to think of what I could have done differently at that age to defuse his anger or handle these situations differently his anger was a frequent occurrence and could never come up with a single idea I felt may have worked with him.


My Tribe members suggested as a resource that I ask him how he was feeling. When they suggested this I thought to myself that this would never work but when I tried the resource it did seem to stop him in the role play.


The Tribe members suggested more resources but the most effective one was to be open to different ideas that came up. When we role played the issue again I just told the truth, I picked the lock up off the door in the alley and started playing with it. We should take it back now, come go with me to return it. I was surprised by this and really think it would work very well.


Every incidence of him yelling at me when I was a child I felt weak and powerless to do anything to change the situation, but in this role-play I felt powerful, in control, I no longer felt at the effect of his anger but instead felt the power to effectively deal with both the situation and his anger.


Internally in my body it feels like everything shifted. Thanks team, I like this resource and I intend to keep it. This is an amazing process.

Thank you for sharing your process and for your description of the Rocks Process.

Monday, November 2, 2009





This is a question for the FAQ.

Is Rocks a necessary follow up to the Hot Seat process every time?

Not necessarily.

Monday, November 2, 2009


Feedback on Starting a Fund

and Offer to Help

Dear Ed,


Regarding various contributors reports on starting a fund, I offer the following:

The documents are essentially the same boilerplate; you are looking at a limited partnership.

you need a "doc"... you then take the doc to a lawyer - to tune it!

Lawyers might try to sell you a boilerplate for 50K or 25k or whatever.

I have significant investment in my document but I would be willing to share with you for a nominal fee of $395 ... this gives you your document to "start" a fund you fine tune.  You fill in performance fees, management fees, etc

you then take to a lawyer who "tunes" your document,  this should be under 4k.

This is the way to do it. This will save you a bunch of money

Thank you for your advice and offer.


I concur with your idea of formulating your basic company structure, principles and mission statement before engaging the expenses of legal counsel and formal registrations.

Monday, November 2, 2009


Committing to Having a Child

Dear Ed,

I commit to having a baby of my own. Here are some of the things I think are important to the process:

1. Health Insurance
2. Find a doctor I like
3. Exercise regularly
4. Take my fertility herbs regularly - as directed, not as I remember!
5. Cut down on caffeine and alcohol
6. Buy a vehicle suitable for a family
7. Start monitoring my fertility

If there is anything else you think will help me, please let me know. I appreciate all suggestions. Thank you everyone for your support.

You might consider coming into full alignment with your mate about your commitment - and to the life-long responsibilities that associate with that commitment.




Family: The Essential Tribe



Clip: http://www.torchleader.com/tl/


Monday, November 2, 2009


No Response from [City] Tribe

Mr. Seykota,

Do you know if the Trading Tribe group in [City] is still meeting? I emailed [Name] but did not get a response.

I occasionally survey Tribes to check for activity. If I find none, I take them off the list.

Monday, November 2, 2009


Wants to Ask Questions

Dear Ed,

I am a very keen reader of your website and highly interested in trend-following.

I am 23 years old and just finished my [degree] in Finance with my dissertation entitled "Mechanical trend-following trading system for futures".

I have been backtesting my system for over a year and started trading it live last month.

I am still doing constant re-testing of my system.

I would be grateful if I could ask you some question on trend-following since I am highly interested in your views and opinions.

If you are interested I could also forward you a copy of my dissertation!

I look forward to hearing from you.


Monday, November 2, 2009


Feedback on The Whipsaw Song

Dear Ed,

Nice job integrating this light energy music with the proper habits of good trading. I have watched this and listened to it a few times this evening. Great music and what a window for reinforcing or changing associations to the proper trading habits.


For me, I feel the power of the music as I visualize and feel the feelings in each situation presented in the song: riding a trend, stopping out, staying with the method through the drawdowns and feeling the heat associated with that process. Combine that with the visuals of you and your groups' facial expression and you have quite a fun way to feel these aspects of the work.

I feel this is a nice "live" addition to your teachings. Music and vocals really make things come alive and this surely does.

I am in the process of staying with a short position in [Instrument] and entry with [Instrument] also short - us equities. My current if you would call it that "level" is developing the skill of staying with very profitable trades and following the system.

Anyway, just wanted to tell you how effective your little musical video was for me. It evoked positive feeling and I imagine for some traders it will be very effective at either changing their negative associations to good trading habits to either positive ones, or at the least provide a neutral feeling. It will be some kind of stepping stone using another modality besides the written word and the echoes of thought inside someone's head. I look forward to feeling the feelings of staying with my trades until they are done.

Thanks again. keep up the talented work.

Thank you for your support. 


If you are adopting the Trend Trading principles in the song, you might consider checking that you have some kind of stop-loss protection on your positions.

Sunday, November 1, 2009


Intentions = Results

Hello Mr. Ed,

While reading a recent article I think about the TTP Equation: "intention = result"

Everybody gets what they want! Aha!


Sunday, November 1, 2009


Wants Stock Charts

Dear Ed,

I am an avid student of TT-FAQ and all parts of the website.

“The Trading Tribe” is on order and should arrive this week.

But I am puzzled that no stocks accompany the links described in the subject line above. There is a log-in and I read the message: under de-construction

Is this part of the site shut down?

Thank you for supporting this site. I have been learning TTP on my own through the site. After reading your book I plan to start a TT where I live.

I am committed to excellence, personal growth, and supporting and receiving support from others in TTP

I plan to put the service back on line. I am  currently revising the software.

Sunday, November 1, 2009


Most Profitable Years

Dear Ed:

I was scanning YOUTUBE for more things to absorb, and I found your Trading whipsaw song.

I revisited FAQ on the TT website for the first time in a few years.

I was a member of the [City] Tribe for a couple of years. We have since moved on. The last three years have been the most profitable trading years in my 9 years of making trades.

Thanks for the banjo song. I enjoy it. Thanks for sharing on your website and in starting the tribe process.

Thank you for sharing your process.

Sunday, November 1, 2009


Starting a Fund

Dear Ed,

I commit to starting a long-term systematic trend following fund by January 2010.

From now until the end of 2009, there are many intertwining elements which I am currently working on:

1) Building month-to-month pro-forma financial statements for the company (from now until the end of 2012)

2) Clarifying agreements with investors so I can move forward with incorporation and share allocation (as well as finalizing a shareholder agreement)

3) Refining my system and continuing back-testing

4) Building a list of potential clients and marketing the fund

The intend to have a minimum of $1M in trading capital for January 2010 and a minimum of $10M by the end of 2010.

I commit to sending bi-weekly reports detailing my progress. Reports will include: number of hours working on tasks, completion of specific tasks, system performance updates when running live, feelings as they come up, and the number of potential clients I connect with.

Thank you for your support.

Thank you for sharing your process.

Sunday, November 1, 2009


Committing to Supporting His Family



Thank you for being on my support team. My balance sheet at the end of this week is:

Assets:          $575,560.74
Liabilities:     $552,142.58
Net:              $23,416.17
500 oz. goal:    $520,000.00

The big takeaway from the workshop for me is that the relationship I'm trying to have with my father is not the relationship he is willing to have with me.


Accepting our relationship as it is in reality is painful for me. I resist letting go of decades' worth of fantasies. I notice going through at least the first 4 of the Kübler-Ross stages this week.

I notice that all of my debt relates to my house. I discuss the possibility of a short sale with my wife (I owe more than the house is worth), and get a lot of support from her. I wonder about the repercussions to my credit history. I imagine living in a rental apartment. I notice agreeing intellectually but resisting emotionally.

Thank you for sharing your process.

Sunday, November 1, 2009


Releasing Molestation Trauma - After 35 Years

Hi Ed,


Thank you for hosting the weekend. I learned a lot during the weekend. The first two rocks processes I participated in both people on the hotseat had issues that were very similar to mine. On the first one I did not participate in the role playing because of a concern that I would not be effective since the issue he was dealing with was so close to one of mine so I just observed.


On the second rocks process I was in I volunteered to play the aggressor only after no one else raised their hand. I had a real concern that I could not pull it off since I had a strong emotional attachment to his issue.


He had been molested as a child and so had I at about the same age. One big concern was that I would get emotional in the middle of someone else's process and throw their progress off or look bad. I raised my hand anyway to play the part of the aggressor, Ed ask me to go ahead and I was stuck not knowing how to proceed. Ed checked for willingness on my part and I replied I was willing just not sure how to start. After a suggestion I got started and seemed to play the role well. Although from time to time thoughts about my own issue came to mind I was surprised to find myself able to stay focused on the role I was entrusted to play.


The next morning my experience of my own childhood played its self out in my mind. I remembered going to my next door neighbors home to watch him play with his model airplane engines. I always liked to build model cars and airplanes but my family could not afford the more expensive models with the gas powered engines and he always had the best ones. I remember as a child wondering how he could afford so many of them even being a few years older than I. After the incident happened I left that garage vowing to myself I would never tell anyone about that. I walked out feeling like a black cloud had covered the earth and everything had changed.


And I never did tell anyone until 35 years later at a visit to a therapist. My ah ha was that what he did to me was probably what had been done to him before and the expensive toys were more than likely the payoff he got to keep quite about it. I can not know for sure this is true but inside it seems to fit well, feels right and is consistent with what I have read on the subject.


Anyway the next morning after going over this in my mind I got more peace with my issue, was able to forgive the person who violated me and that issue doesn't seem to be something that troubles me now.


Again thanks for hosting this weekend.

Thank you for sharing your process.




Victims of Molestation


who deal with their trauma


can avoid becoming the molesters


of the next generation.











Clip: http://www.hat.net/album/asia/india/




Sunday, November 1, 2009


Developing a System

Hello Ed,

I am grateful for your support! I commit to develop a stock trend following trading system, to trade my own account, by the end of Jan. 31st, 2010. I further commit to updates on the first and third week of every month.

Select Trading Software-Nov. 15th, 2009
Market Selection-Dec. 1st, 2009
Entry&Exit Signals-Dec. 15th, 2009
Position Sizing-Jan. 1st, 2010
Back Testing/Bliss Factor-Jan. 15th, 2010
Implementation of Stock Trend Trading System-Feb. 1st, 2010.

I look forward to support, suggestions and any additional help as I work through this process.

You might consider walking with someone who has some experience with this path.

Sunday, November 1, 2009


Selling it for $1,000,000,000.00

Dear Ed,

Thank you all for your kind willingness to be on my support team. It makes me feel that my goal will be completely successful.

Here is my Bumper sticker / Big Wave, I formulated at the Workshop last weekend.

I ensure that [Name] will be sold for One Billion Dollars by November 10th, 2009.

How will the Tribe know? I will report to you- and you will also read it in the Wall Street Journal.

I felt fine for a few minutes, after my announcement, then noticed that I had a pain in my neck and a a tightness around my head. That seemed appropriate to me, as I had just put my neck on the line.

I got home- thanks to a kindly lift from [Name] and [Name]- and my husband was playing La Mer -on the CD player . A Big Wave.

I am aware that this is something of a long-shot.
I had high expectations of the Workshop- and they were more than fulfilled. I had an excellent and productive Workshop. I gained a lot of confidence in my system. I also realized that I need to do a lots of further study. I am a lot clearer as where I need to focus. The immediate issues are Closure and Precision.

No FAQs- I am in the process of re-thinking how I am studying. My priority is learning to back-test with the CSI program. I'm thinking of buying the Trading Blox program too.

Gym 5 days
Travel- 3 days

If you are in an inflationary economy and if you have a little patience, you may be able to sell lots of things for $1B.




Five Billion Mark Note


Issue: Berlin, September 10, 1923












Clip: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/




Sunday, November 1, 2009


Wants to Make 80%

Hello Ed,

Thank you very much for being on my support team. Here's my commitment. Feedback / criticism / etc very welcome.

I feel resistance to hitting the send button, "this is isn't perfect, I don't want to put myself out there,..."

Also interesting how many hours it has taken me to put this together.

Commitment: I will earn an annual return of 80% by 12-31-10 . To accomplish this I commit to continuous development of my system, to following my system, and to experiencing my feelings/practicing TTP.

I commit to continuous development of my system, to following my system, to experiencing my feelings/practicing TTP and to earning an annual return of 80% by 12-31-10

(not sure which wording I prefer on the above)

Continuous development:

* Trade review (2 per day).
* Past chart review (2 per day).
* Keep Trading Diary.
* Keep Trade Tracking.
* Read IBD (DSA, IC, BP), DJIM,

Gilmo, and relevant books.

Following my system:

* Capital deployment (6% minimum position size, 10-15% preferable).
* Keep pulling the trigger on signals, particularly when I don’t want to.
* Review current watch list daily.

Experience my feelings/practicing TTP:

* Become aware of my feelings in real time.
* Make friends with my feelings and let them be a guide/emotional instrument panel.
* Drop dramatic, ritualistic, and medicinal practices I have during the day.
* Replace these with proactive practices (the Continuous development stuff above).
* Participate in local tribe, FAQs, and Workshops that Ed offers.

Earning a return of 80%:

* Measurement of ytd performance.


-report on continuous development of my system, following my system, and experiencing my feelings/practicing TTP once a month (within first three days of the new month) and report on returns quarterly.

You might consider running some simulations to find out what kinds of drawdowns go along with your profit objective.


If you are having second thoughts about the wording of your commitment, you might consider taking your feelings about <your commitment> to Tribe.



Commitment implies sincere and steadfast fixity of purpose.  People have various views about commitment.




When You're Beyond Screwed

and way too stubborn to care.





The chicken is in.

The pig is all-in.





You hang in there,

especially when don't feel like it.






Clips: http://freshfocus.info/blog/wp-content/







Sunday, November 1, 2009


Developing a Trend Following System

Dear Ed,

Thank you for being on my support team.
I commit to develop a Futures Trend Following Trading System to trade my own account.
I also commit to actively participate in [City] Trading Tribe.

I commit to a bi-weekly newsletter to report to you on my processes and progress in both.

Since the workshop, I contact the [City] Trading Tribe leader and he is working on setting up the first meeting. I intend to attend the meeting.

I also research the steps of developing a futures trading system. I notice that some of the steps can be accomplished in a short period of time while some may need a significant amount of time. I guess the time frame for completion of each step. An attachment to this email is a copy of the steps for your review.

I welcome and appreciate suggestions, critiques, comments, and all other levels of support from you.

I wonder how you intend to ensure that you stick to your system.

Sunday, November 1, 2009


Workshop Feedback: Shame and Guilt

Hi Ed,

I hope you are well. Thank you for volunteering to be on my support team. My commitment was:

"Understand the positive intention of Shame and Guilt; Eliminate my last major medicinal cravings"

Since the workshop, I've noticed immediate shift in my mental state and I am happy to say that my medicinal behavior have disappeared completely. I feel that this result is genuine and I am very satisfied with the result. I'm a little shock of this change however I am making adjustments and learning to live with it. I feel total freedom within me.

It's been a pretty brutal workshop for me but I guess sometime you have to go through brutality to take care your own issues. Thank you for working with me throughout the workshop. It's been a honor to work with you. Thank you Ed for having tremendous patience and support for me. I feel I got my money's worth

I feel complete with my work regarding my major issues and feel ready move one. You might not think so but it would not be possible to accomplish my intension without your support.

Going forward in the now, I am dedicating my right livelihood toward formation of my fund and operating it as one of the well managed, profitable fund. I feel I have enough support to start my fund so I am just going to get going, however once it's up and running, I would like to send email to everyone for it's existence.

Thank you for your awesome support once again.

Thank you for sharing your process.

Back to the Future