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August 1 - 14, 2010


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Contributors Say

(Quotes from Ed in Red)

Ed Says

Saturday, August 14, 2010

Tribe Meeting Report

Hello All,

Thank you for being on my support team.

First, I note my intention to not send this out on time as it is now mid-August and my commitment is by the 3rd day on the new month.

I take five weeks off and go on vacation with my wife and kids at the beginning of July. I see lots of family and experience lots of opportunities to resist feelings and I pass on most all of them. I speak up many times using resources I practice in Tribe and just go with what I’m feeling in that moment. This leaves me feeling satisfied and in the moment. I never feel any temptation or desire to “pull out the knife.”

I continue to work on my campaign to get more done. I notice when I’m supposed to do something and I space out or seek out distraction. I’m focusing on these moments.

I push further towards developing my life outside of trading, mostly spending time with my young children. A quote from Michael Marcus comes to mind - he in essence says if you don’t have something outside of trading-some balance - then you’ll either end up overtrading or flip out over temporary failures.

I have an Aha! about TTP fitting into my life. TTP is not a method for always being happy. It’s not a method for having things magically fall in my lap. It’s a method for removing blockages so that I can get on with the important work, the proactive path.

I notice something about the guidance from feelings. If I don’t take the guidance then I don’t get it. I also notice how fast feelings can come and go - in fractions of a second - but the message is clear and unabbreviated.

Flipping through the channels one night I catch an old Sopranos on which Tony Soprano gives a definition of a knot: “This psychiatry s---. Apparently what you’re feelin’ is not what you’re feelin’ and what you’re not feelin’ is your real agenda.”

Given we’re halfway through August my next update will be for September.

Thank you for sharing your process and your insights.

Friday, August 13, 2010

Tribe Meeting Report


It is four weeks since the last meeting of the Austin Trading Tribe, and I am realizing how much I need TTP. In the two weeks prior to the July 29th meeting, I feel a regression into old habits. I notice I turn away from certain feelings. I am letting the feelings I do not want to experience, run my life. This four weeks between meetings is giving me perspective into what life is like without TTP. I am seeing how much TTP helps me and improves my life, and how much I want to continue with it.

At our Austin Trading Tribe meeting of 7/29, all members again bring "proof of completion" of our projects. After each Tribe member presents his proof, everyone else in turn declares "Pass" or "No Pass." There is still a lot of "No pass" going around the room. I also receive a "No Pass" from the majority of my fellow Tribe members. At first I feel frustrated. I feel like I have worked hard on my project. But then Ed helps me to realize that when my fellow Tribe members give me a "No Pass," they are not rejecting me. They are truthfully working with me. They are supporting me. They are helping me to improve, to be more convincing, more direct and succinct in my proof of completion. When I look at it that way, I am actually glad I didn't get a "Pass" and am looking forward to doing a better job at the next meeting.

I see two completely opposite hot seat experiences. In the first, the Tribe member is unwilling to experience his feelings. He is unable to move forward with his hot seat experience. After of period of time without progress, both the member and the rest of the Tribe realize that TTP is not something that this Tribe member is ready to pursue and we all agree to part ways.

In the second hot seat of the evening, the member shows complete commitment. He fully immerses himself, without any reservations, into the process. He sometimes feels held down and smothered by his Trading Tribe project, and through the hot seat is able to uncover a school playground incident, as well as experiences with his grandmother that have the exact same feeling. The chief of another Trading Tribe is present, and he does a fantastic job guiding the process. The role players and support from within our own Tribe are tremendous. I can feel that the Tribe is thrilled to move forward from the first, unsuccessful hot seat of the night, to the second, where significant progress is made. Support and positive intentions fill the room.

Thank you for sharing your process and your insights.

Friday, August 13, 2010

Thinks TTP is a Cult

Dear Ed,

Whilst over the past few years I have been a close follower of the TTP FAQ, I have recently become increasingly disappointed with the undertones of arrogance and double standards that I have detected.


Whilst you hold many others (including those who criticize your unconventional perspective on the Bernoulli effect) to the rigors of scientific standard and logic, TTP itself is mostly an accumulation of anecdote that has developed as a result of a personality cult with Ed Seykota at its centre. The cult seems to be oriented around your celebrated financial success and apparent emotional skill with reducing emotional experiences to often sharp, clear witticisms.


Concurrently, you are heavily critical of mainstream psychiatry and psychotherapy - in one entry you rearranged the letters of "psychotherapist" to "psycho the rapist", damning to say the least. No doubt your objections to psychiatry and psychotherapy are somewhat justified (after all there is a lot of prescription these days) and people frequently consult therapists for emotional pain with very mixed results. However, I believe your disregard for their value in the society is reckless. You have, I believe, thrown the baby out with the bathwater.

I offer the following arguments.

In modern times, psychodynamic therapy (which is based on psychoanalysis) and cognitive behavioral therapies have large bodies of evidence showing their efficacy at symptomatic relief and redirection of life towards "right livelihood".

See: http://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/



for just one of many examples of rigorous scientific research that has attempted to see if and why talking to someone helps to relieve pain and help people live their lives. Evidence now abounds that talking to someone with a specific set of skills can frequently lead to huge improvements in psychic status and indeed change brain structure (see Norman Doidge's excellent book "The Brain That Changes Itself", particular attention to the chapter on psychoanalysis). We now "know" (as best as we can) that therapy not only works, but the early stages of understanding how it works are also beginning to show.

I might also question why, in your criticism of psychiatry in a number of posts, you have decided as if almost by definition that psychopharmacology is a product of evil drug companies? Whilst I agree that over prescription can be a sign of several things going awry (lazy medicine, gung ho advertising etc) it does not mean that the drugs don't help many patients with extremely difficult to manage psychological and organic problems. After all, patients initiate contact with doctors with full knowledge of the existence of psychopharmacology, and frequently request it.

The primary inconsistency that I would like to point to is that TTP whilst no doubt helpful for some people; has made no such inroads into its own effectiveness and still relies on an ad hoc "we know we work" assumption. Of note, this reminds me of the criticisms leveled frequently at Scientology.

When I read the pages of FAQ, I see the embryos of a religion. Underpinned by a faith in a process, collected around one person purporting to have "the answer," - the cornerstone of most religions. "The answer" has been well circulated by all religions since the dawn of man; accompanied by promises of eternal bliss to any willing believer. Subsequently, empowered by their own narcissism, religions often criticize their direct competitors by proclaiming to have "the best" solution to a person's problem. However, in my view, they are just offering a ready anesthetic from the pain of reality to those who elect to follow them. By fostering an addiction to faith, more adherence therefore becomes an end in itself. In most cases this is probably reasonably benign, but it is not science.

Thank you for sharing your concerns.


I, too, wrestle with the question of how to be an effective leader without making people dependent.


You might like to notice, in the FAQ item you mention, I post the alternate spelling as "another view," not as a preference.  The link you cite, from the American Psychological Association, is naturally quite pro-therapy.


I agree that many psychologists and psychiatrists deliver valuable services and assist people to live fuller and more satisfying lives.


I also notice that the industry has various financial incentives for doctors and for drug companies to prolong therapy and to over-medicate.


In your assessment of what is and what isn't a cult, you might like to consider:


1. TTP aims to assist people in accepting and celebrating the positive intentions of their feelings.


Some forms of psycho-pharmacology aims to suppress feelings.


2. TTP uses extensive willingness testing, to make sure the person on the hot seat stays in control of the process, while the Tribe assists him in his journey


In some public school districts, children who are fidgety (likely associating with boring teachers) must, against their will and against the will of their parents, suffer administration of Ritalin.  BTW, some researchers report a high correlation between Ritalin and school shootings.


3. FAQ does not tell people what they "should" do.  I generally phrase my responses as suggestions to consider.


The government school system and the internal revenue service make compliance with their rules mandatory, ultimately under threat of incarceration.


4. People routinely report substantial improvement in their lives by following TTP principles.


I don't know of a blog where people who go to public schools report improvement in their lives.


5. TTP aims to set people free to run their own lives.


Our society is in process of the "zombification" of its citizens.


You might like to consider who's really running the cults these days and who's working to set people free - to run their own lives.


Per your concern about the absence of any formal scientific verification for TTP, I know of one study that is due to issue from a major university, that applies conventional statistical metrics to TTP and finds it compares favorably with talk therapy and drug-therapy.


You might also consider attending a Tribe meeting at one of the many independent Tribes all over the world - so you can get a direct personal experience of what goes on in Tribe meetings.


You might also consider taking your feelings about <dependence>, <interdependence> and <competition> to Tribe.




A Cult is a Religion or Sect


that others consider to be

unorthodox, extreme

and false




Clip:  www.space-rockets.com




Friday, August 13, 2010



I like this link about children asking why. It shows a comedians process of going from "causal" answer to a "now" answer.

It starts at about 2:59 and ends at 4:54.


Clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fdc28bZ90G4&feature=related


Thank you for the clip.

Thursday, August 12, 2010

Going Public

Ed wrote:
From August 1, 2010:


You might consider taking your feelings about <putting your interests into a contest> to Tribe.


Thank you, I believe that is pretty good advice. Can you tell me why you decided to 'go public'
and become a mentor?

all the best,


FAQ is originally a response to a few questions about trading and the Trading Tribe. 

Wednesday, August 11, 2010


I feel embarrassment about not sending my wishes on time.

I see this license plate a week ago and think of you.

Happy Birthday Ed.


Thank you for the plate.

Wednesday, August 11, 2010

Fear of Speaking

Hey Ed-

Happy 64th!

My calendar now reads 2 years since discussing a new business with you at a Tribe meeting at your house.

I want to send a status report to FAQ and the status is that I’m too busy preparing a webinar for customers to write much.

My speaking engagements fill me with fear: heart pounding, stomach churning, tunnel vision -- fear.

My personal trading gets better as I take fewer risks there.

Best wishes to you in Austin

Thank you for sharing your process.  You might consider speaking about your fear of speaking.

Wednesday, August 11, 2010


Dear Mr. Seykota,

I wish you a happy birthday, good health and all the best to you!

Thank you.

Tuesday, August 10, 2010

Tribe Report

We start the meeting and everyone checks in. We then go around the room and show our evidence due September 23rd that shows proof now that we complete our projects.


After seeing others describe their evidence, some being many pages long, I feel maybe I have not done enough as mine is only 3 items. The other Tribe members then give a pass or no pass as to whether our evidence proves we did what we said or it does not. I am surprised when mine gets a pass the first time. I learn the value of having work that is short, accurate and to the point.


One Tribe member takes the hot seat. His issue is his mother asks his dad to take him along bowling when the dad normally goes out alone. Dad does not like this and berates his son about his lack of bowling skills. I feel that there is no way the son can win at that game. Dad was angry she made him take the son along so the son caught the anger the dad felt towards the mother. The son tries the resources of asking his dad how he feels and tries on expressing how he is feeling and that seems to stop the angry dad in his tracks. In fact these resources seem to turn the situation around where the dad actually expresses care and concern for the son.


Several times in this series while one member is on the hot seat I find an issue of my own come up that is similar to the one the hotseat is experiencing. On the ride home and during the following days these seem to work themselves out where they do not seem to be an issue any longer. Another member gets on the hot seat and has trouble expressing any emotion. After working with this member for quite awhile it is agreed he may need to see a therapist to work on his ability to physically express his feelings. The last member who has not taken the hot seat yet in this series does so and starts talking about his issue. He quickly locates an incident to work on which happens to him on the playground at school. After he works that one out to his satisfaction with a role play another earlier incident comes up for him.


It is getting late and everyone agrees to keep going and run the meeting over time for him to resolve this. The incident involves his grandmother putting her breast in his mouth at a young age. Even at that young age he finds that distasteful but does not have the capability to express or defend himself. We role play the incident and use a wash cloth as a substitute for the breast. While looking for resources that a child that young could use one member suggest biting. We role play that resource and it seems to work very well for him.


I do not have experience using something else that is safe to substitute for the offending item. Everyone agrees before hand that the washcloth is the substitute for the offending item and the role play works effectively for the hot seat participant.

Thank you for sharing your process.




Breasts Can Give Life and Nourishment


and can also be part

of child abuse.




Clip: http://ecostreet.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/breastfeeding.jpg


Tuesday, August 10, 2010

Wants to Attend a Workshop

Hi Ed:

I read The Trading Tribe Book.

I am in Nevada October 18-20. I want to be a guest at the Incline Village TT meeting around that time. Does it meet October 13 or October 20?

I read some of the July and August FAQ. Do you live in Austin or Incline Village or both? Do I find you at the Austin TT or Incline Village TT or either?

I want to attend a TT workshop as soon as possible.

I am currently conducting a series of Tribe Meetings in Austin TX. 


You can watch this column for an announcement for another Workshop.

Monday, August 9, 2010

Progress Report


I hope everyone is doing well. It is almost ten months since the TT workshop in Reno and about four months since I last wrote an update. Life is good and busy. My twins, born June 4th, were about five weeks early and very healthy. We are thankful for the tremendous amount of help from family in taking care of them. My wife is doing an amazing job round the clock.

Ed, thanks again for all the tools you continue to provide. It is changing my life for the better.


Our  Tribe is doing great. We are now meeting once a month. I have process managed over twenty processes and taken a number of hot seats. My last hot seat deals with my first sexual experience that in the past I find as an extremely traumatic attack and now find as an almost humorous experience with a horny irresponsible girl.


Oh, it feels so good to be done reliving that drama. It has been rewarding watching the progress others in the group choose to make. I am not sure if I brought this up last time, the TT process is dramatically improving my health. I have all these back, neck, and ankle issues that I long ago accept as my reality. Since letting go of the belief that "I am broken and damaged goods", they no longer serve me and with physical therapy are disappearing fast. I feel as though I am just scratching the surface of what I am able to give. Again, I am so thankful to have the tools and the opportunity I have.

Our CTA is almost done with the NFA registration. Prior to the twins I comfortably work about 50-60 hours a week. Now with the twins, it has been a distracted forty hour week. My aunt just started living with us, as a result I am finally able to get some work done in the evening and sleeping a little more. Our system is doing extremely well in this early summer's environment. I trade it more aggressively than we are going to offer and I am up over 110% since April. Much of the profit came from May's flash crash, we were in 20 markets and on the right side of 18 of them. It trades short term (5 day ave hold), long/short in 27 markets. I am happy. I love system based trading and the opportunities it provides investors. The sales, marketing, and operations seem like the right place for me. I feel lucky to be working with my business partner.

Thank you all for your support. I have not set time to report again.

Thank you for sharing your progress and your successes.

Monday, August 9, 2010

Hi, Ed!

I was told that you have three considered valuable stuff books and one of them is [Book]


Then what are the rest of the books? I'd appreciate you'd let me know the titles of them.

You might consider putting your contribution in SVO-p so I know who the teller is.


You can check the Resources link at the top of the page for more books.

Monday, August 9, 2010

Intentions = Results

Dear Ed,

One of the requirements for joining this Tribe Meeting Series in Austin was for each participant to have a meaningful project he would like to complete during the series.


During this week’s session we brought in physical prototypes or documentation of our deliverables. We presented them assuming it was already the future target date but in the present tense. After each person gave his verbal report on his project, each other member of the team then give it either a “Pass” or “No Pass” and a reason for the “No Pass”. The exercise was valuable on several levels. It helped me clarify exactly what is my goal and its corresponding deliverables. It also triggered my built-in goal-seeking mechanism and I now have a high degree of confidence that I will achieve my target.

My main “aha” moment was from one of the hot seats of the session when I realized that everything that has happened to me, even as a child and however unpleasant they may have been, is the result of my intention.

Thank you Ed and my fellow Tribe members for your valuable insights, feedback and support.

Thank you for sharing your insights.

Monday, August 9, 2010

TTP as an Alternative to Therapy


I can report some developments.

1. A Tribesman calls me on Friday. An old girlfriend contacted him and wants to see him on Monday, he is uncertain about her intentions and thinks that a meeting could lead to a destabilization of his current relationship.


He is in despair and asks me if he can see me the same day. I just listen to him, receive him and tell him that his feelings are quite OK: he can see her, he can talk to her, he can lye her down, and everything is OK. After some minutes, he is baffled and asks me “What did you do? I am no more worried about the issue! Everything is fine!”. His deep confusion and anxiety are gone. On Tuesday we talk again, he just gave the girl a business-like call and told her that he is not interested in seeing her.

2. Two patients with depressions want to talk with me. One of them is consulting a psychiatrist, who told him that the treatment will take 2 years. I have a long phone talk with him and a consultation lasting for some 30 minutes. I just receive him and tell him how cool it is to be depressive and to be afraid of the future!


Two weeks later, he contacts me: his depression is gone. The second patient has been suffering for depressions for years, even required antidepressants. We have a meeting which lasts about one hour. After some weeks, the patient reports that after this one meeting the symptoms are gone.

3. I tell the story to a doctoral student and say “Two people report that they got healed of their depression after just one talk with me”. She answers “Say three: after I told you about my troubles and you received me a couple of weeks ago, also MY depression is gone”.

4. I take a walk with my youngest son. On the street, the mother of another child talks to me and suddenly she tells me about her worries regarding a teacher: she heard that she is rough to the children. I tell her that I am not aware of that, but I receive that she has a different issue: her fear of leaving her little son at the kindergarten for the first time. I tell her that it is quite OK to be afraid and to be sad about the separation from her child. As I depart, less than five minutes later, she tells me how released she is and how helpful our talk was. I remember just saying two or three sentences!

The interesting part is that I am mostly not doing TTP on them consciously. In fact, it takes me a huge effort NOT to receive people when they talk to me, and I do it only for teaching purposes with my Tribe.

Thank you for sharing your process and your successes implementing (AT) Alternative Therapy.

Monday, August 9, 2010


Dear Ed.

What is surrender?



In TTP, to surrender is to give over or resign yourself to something - such as to an emotion or to a trend.



Diane Keaton Demonstrates How Surrender


can be a path to freedom.



Clip: www.upcomingdiscs.com

Sunday, August 8, 2010


Ukraine Tribe


Dear Ed,


I submit my TT ID for a new Tribe in the Ukraine.






Sunday, August 8, 2010

A Whale of a Story


This story brightened my day and I want to pass it along.

Happy Sunday!

How rewarding and what a joyful experience.

The Whale Said "Thank You"

If you read a recent front page story of the SF (San Francisco) Chronicle, you would have read about a female humpback whale that had become entangled in a spider web of crab traps and lines.
She was weighted down by hundreds of pounds of traps that caused her to struggle to stay afloat.
She also had hundreds of yards of line rope wrapped around her body, her tail, her torso, a line tugging in her mouth.

A fisherman spotted her just east of the Farallon Islands (outside the Golden Gate) and radioed an environmental group for help.

Within a few hours, the rescue team arrived and determined that she was so bad off, the only way to save her was to dive in and untangle her.

They worked for hours with curved knives and eventually freed her.

When she was free, the divers say she swam in what seemed like joyous circles.

She then came back to each and every diver, one at a time, and nudged them, pushed them gently around...she was thanking them. Some said it was the most incredibly beautiful experience of their lives.

The guy who cut the rope out of her mouth said her eyes were following him the whole time, and he will never be the same.

May you, and all those you love, be so blessed and fortunate to be surrounded by people who will help you get untangled from the things that are binding you.

And, may you always know the joy of giving and receiving gratitude.

I pass this on to you, my friends, in the same spirit.

Thank you for the tail.

Saturday, August 7, 2010


Hope you are having a great birthday.

Thank you.

Saturday, August 7, 2010


Hi Ed!

Happy birthday friend. I trust that you are enjoying your day.

My wife and I are celebrating our 17th anniversary today with a picnic and a play.

I hope to see the next time I'm in Austin.

Thank you.

Saturday, August 7, 2010

When I'm Sixty-Four

Hi Ed,

Right now, I am wishing you a very happy 64th birthday. That's the feeling I have. I have a funny-mental hunch that I will be feeling this feeling throughout the day, during the non-existent future, whether hiking in Santa Monica, or stuck in traffic on the 405.

If that turns out to be the case, I will not write you again as this email should suffice for all of the non-existent futures evolving into a "now" moment. It's not safe to text / email while driving, especially in "stop and go" traffic.

I like the number 64 myself, as it can be expressed as 4^3, or better, 2^6. You can express it however you like. And if you have certain feelings about 64 or how to express it, my understanding is that you can take them to something known in some parts as a "Tribe Meeting." But be careful, Tribe members can be fanatical about personal growth.

Did you know that "When I'm Sixty Four" by The Beatles is a love song? PM wrote it in 1958 when he was 16 (2^4), but didn't record it until late 1966 - when you were already 20 [(2^4) + (2^2)]. It wasn't released until 1967. Some releases are better than others.


The Trading Tribe can help you with all sorts of releases btw, although they cannot be expressed as a power of 2. However, there are some releases that are not appropriate for Tribe Meetings.

I wonder PM would consider re-releasing "When I'm Sixty-Four" today by replacing the b-flat clarinet part with the banjo? You have homework.

Sixty-four is about 17.78 Celsius. On the other hand, in binary, I'm 1000000.

Saturday, August 7, 2010


I am a co-mentor of a group of traders in [City]. We meet once a week on Wednesdays from 9:00am until 2pm (or so) to share our ideas and knowledge of trading with each other. I say I am a co-mentor because we have set the group up to be a self mentoring format. (everybody gives and receives) We also have a Skype conference call on Monday mornings to review the previous weeks market events and give a heads up for the upcoming week.

This past week I gave a rendition of my Trading Psychology for the Psycho Trader. The overall point of the presentation was that discipline is the main key to success. A trader must have knowledge of the market he is trading, a good money management system using a favorable risk reward and a trading strategy that gives him an edge where a higher probability of one thing happening over another is indicated.


He then must be able to tie these three things together to be able to repeat the process over and over again even when it is not in his favor, discipline. How does one teach discipline? I am not sure one can as I believe it must come from within ones self but I don’t think one can do it alone. Not to sound contradictive but when one has that moment of “gee I could have had a V8”, even though it may have come from within, it was through external experiences of others that it was formed.

Long story short, I regret I did not come across your site until after the presentation since there are many good things I could have shared from it to help get the point across. I have shared your site with a few of the other members and they would like to know more about the TT.

Thanks for being there Ed. I loved the Whip Saw Song so much I posted it on my blog with this weeks wrap up. I also provided a link to your site as well.

Again, thanks,

Laugh loudly, Dance naked, Love all.

Thank you for sharing your process.

Saturday, August 7, 2010

Dealing With Drawdowns

Dear Support Team,

I’m currently getting one of my inevitable drawn downs out of the way. This process evokes anger, sadness, depression and frustration, with frustrations being the dominant feeling. Unlike prior draw downs, I do not resort to self-medicating these feelings through breaking my system or other self-defeating behaviors; I do not blame others or feel sorry for myself; I stay the course and try to experience the feelings, which don’t feel good.

In particular, I wonder about my frustration. Perhaps its positive intention is to shift my focus from what the markets are doing to being more productive elsewhere. I’m a trader whose system does not call for any trades most days, yet I spend an inordinate amount of my time staring at the screens. On a few occasions a week, when a trade is imminent, this is called for. However, most of the time, I might as well be watching reality TV. I plan to spend more time working toward my commitment through marketing and less time watching the markets.

I want to thank those of you who encouraged me to join Toastmasters. I am now a member of a terrific local chapter and I’m scheduled to give my first speech this week.

Thank you for sharing your process.

Saturday, August 7, 2010




Happy Birthday.

Thank you.

Saturday, August 7, 2010

Birthday Math

Dear Ed!

Know what?

We met, when you where 46. I am 46 now.
You were born in the year of `46 and I at `64,
Today I send you love on your 64th Birthday.

18 years ago, we first met. You are 18 years older then I am, when I am your age now, you are 82.
If you switch those two numbers you know roughly, then my 28th was just around the corner, how old I was when we first met. Anyway have a good day, take care.

One thing you can count on - is getting older.

Friday, August 6, 2010

Happy Birthday

Hi Ed,

Just wanted to wish you a Happy Birthday tomorrow. I remember my very brief time in your Tribe at your home and thank you deeply for the insight and experience.

All the best, all the time.

Thank you.

Friday, August 6, 2010

Not Good Enough

Hello Chief,

It is awhile since I write. I read about your move South. I hope all is well with you and I hope you enjoy your new place. I see you are up and running with the local Tribe and I enjoy reading all the reporting. I also enjoy reading the other materials you provide on the website.

My Tribe is on a summer break for several months. The Tribe is ready to meet again with a couple of changes to our processes. My intention is to boost our progress and growth.

Until now we meet every 2 to 6 weeks depending on our personal schedules. There are only two of us. We come to the meetings and share feelings we experience in recent dramas (fight with a wife, experiencing drawdown in account, etc). We encourage and support each other on feeling what ever arises. Sometimes we reach the AHA and sometimes we do not. We do experience relief almost all the time. We do this for a couple of years. After a while I see that I do not progress on projects as fast as I think I should, I procrastinate.


I see the other Tribe member doing the same. We discuss how to better track our commitments. I suggest setting goals and follow up on them. My fellow Tribe member thinks that setting and refining goals and commitments is not a part of a Tribe process. We end up in a disagreement and go our separate ways.

I seem to attract interest of a couple of other people interested in TTP. We now have 3 members. We commit to excellence, personal growth and supporting and receiving support from each other. In addition my intentions for my Tribe are:

1. Materializing snapshots.
2. Gaining wisdom from the experience of materializing snapshots and our feelings.
3. Helping others to do the same.


1. We commit to regular meetings every 2-3 weeks for the next 4 months.

2. On our first 1-2 meetings we submit, clarify and refine our snapshots. We clarify processes on how to achieve our snapshots and the process of tracking the progress and validating completion.

3. At the following meetings we present our progress or lack of to the tribe. We use the Trading Tribe Process to experience feelings, which may hold us from achieving our snapshots.

4. We commit to reporting to Ed’s FAQ’s after every meeting.

Snapshots I would like to materialize before the first meeting are:

1. Balanced / surplus the family budget (currently expenses exceed income every month)

- When I am behind and I cannot afford something I feel like a failure.

2. Improved trading system (currently very crude trend-following system)

- I am not satisfied with my current system. I want it to be better, make more money, and have smaller drawdowns. My research is unfocused as I allow for many distractions. I sense that the feelings I have towards my system mirror feelings I have about myself - not good enough, average, and uncertain.

3. Have clients (currently trading family members funds)

- I move very slowly towards this goal. Sometimes I think I have nothing of great value to offer to clients. I think that they may be better off going to someone with 20 – 30 years of experience like you, Ed, or any of your very smart students who are in business longer than I.

4. Being in great physical shape (currently going through a period of not exercising consistently. I often overeat at night)

- When I am out of shape I seem to feel less happy with myself.

I commit to follow up with a report after the first meeting. My intention is to report until all the snapshots are fulfilled and then replace them with new ones. Please find my updated  Information Document attached.

Ed once again, thank you for the opportunity to learn from you and to be a part of such an amazing community.

Thank you for sharing your process.


You might consider taking your feelings about <not good enough> to Tribe

Wednesday, August 4, 2010


Sex and No Sex

Dear Ed,

I have a short report, I am not certain if it is appropriated for the FAQ:

On Friday I take the issue “I do not feel well” to the hot seat. As I accept the feeling I am overwhelmed by joy. The state is so beautiful that I do not want to leave it. I think “It is so much better than sex!”. At the end of the process I experience that I am not interested in sex, since the experience with this state is so much joyful.

The next two days I have sex with a lady 9 times, breaking all my records …

Thank you for sharing your process.



Nine, and Counting




Clip: www.rumi.typepad.com



Wednesday, August 4, 2010


Happy Birthday for the 7th Ed.

I continue to learn so much from you.

I find myself constantly thinking about intimacy and right livelihood. Thinking this way begins to permeate my life.

I try to identify the feelings of those around me

I try to feel my own feelings. I realize I may have many judges and blockages to work through.

I notice how my relationship with my wife and the circumstances in my life seems to be changing.

I have noticed rejection.

I have not slept with my wife for a long time. She has started a University Degree which is very intense and she is very busy and very tired as she continues to work at her part time job and be a good mother to my 3 children.

I feel some rejection as she is too tired and too busy to pay me attention.

I notice that I have a lot of rejection in my life, I have been rejected recently for a large number of jobs I have applied for.

I notice that my comments and contributions get rejected by colleagues at work.

The rejection feels like a punch in the stomach and I feel hot flushes in my neck and my jaw clenches.

I acknowledge and accept this feeling as a chance to grow and move towards right livelihood.

I wait for my right livelihood to appear.

My old behavioral pattern would be to get sucked back into the control centric model and attempt to manipulate, beg, sulk, demand or force my wife to be intimate with me, force people to listen to my comments, instead I now focus on my feelings, accept them and go with the flow.

I notice how my wife and I seem to be under more pressure and stress than ever, but we seem to fight less than before and I feel closer to her.

She seems happier and I also notice she shares her feelings more, she tells me about her guilt as her studies place more strain on those in the family and how she has less time to spend with the children. I receive her feelings. I acknowledge her.

I feel an urge to phone my Dad, I hardly ever call him.

We speak to each other about once every 3 months, usually he phones me.

I call him,

He is having a difficult time. He tells me about his own problems with his business and his car. I receive to the best of my ability. He is striving for personal growth through writing as per Katie Byron's "the works".

He is writing about his own feelings as I phone.

I believe I identify his feeling as that of rejection. I tell him I love and support him and accept him.

We have a good conversation and really connect.

I sense he feels a lot happier and more able to deal with his issues.

In my own life I feel happier and I now welcome experiencing rejection as a chance move me towards my right livelihood.

I also feel clarity in that I realize I have taken responsibility for my life.

I am responsible for the situations I place myself in through my own choices.

I am here to move towards my right livelihood which is to help and support those around me.

I commit to receive ALL feelings.

I acknowledge I have slip ups and I acknowledge I still have problems to work through, such as accepting my feelings of dislike for authority, of fear, of failure and I still need to address my feelings of rejection further.

I may be clumsy at working the intimacy model but but I remain committed, there is no going back.

It seems to be working.

Thank you for sharing your process.  You might consider taking your feelings about <rejection> to Tribe.



If You Are Unwilling

to experience the feeling of rejection


you are likely to get a lot


of rejection.





Clip: http://catawampusme.blogspot.com



Wednesday, August 4, 2010

The Expected Value of a Lucky Coin

Thank you for clarifying expectancy.

Thank you for teaching me SVO-p, forcing me to concentrate on the definition of my words and to ensure my communication is clear and simple.

Thank you for your risk paper, It is the most enlightening, simple and informative literature I have ever read on risk.

I follow along and replicate your examples in a spreadsheet.

I learn more from reading your concise, simple, risk paper than I do from many other books on the subject.

I read your risk paper many times and I grasp something new almost every time I read it.

I think about a lucky coin.

Your risk paper states under the "Non-Balanced Distributions and High Payoff's" paragraph

"for a 3:1 payoff, each toss yields an expected value of payoff-times-probability or 3/2"

You refer to the expected value being the same as the "luck-payoff product" in the Diversification paragraph.

The above text and your middle graph seems to imply this payoff-times-probability holds true for all cases of coin luck.

I agree with this for a 50% lucky coin.

I must respectfully dis-agree and challenge you on this for All cases of coin luck.

Compare the following two examples:

Example 1

I consider a bet of $10 with a 50% lucky coin.

If I bet heads and win, I have 3-times my $10 bet, plus the return of my original bet of $10, the total being $40.

If I lose, I lose $10

I have a 50% chance of both events, therefore my expected value is 0.5 times $40 (position after a winning toss ) less 0.5 times $10 (position after a losing toss) which equals $15

This is indeed payoff-times-probability or 3/2 of my original bet.

Example 2

I consider the same bet and payoff, but this time for a coin with 70% luck.

If I win I have $40 as before.

If I lose I lose $10 as before.

I have a 70% chance of winning and therefore I have a 30% chance of losing.

I know this is true as these events are mutually exclusive and represent the complete set of outcomes for the coin toss, assuming the coin doesn't land on it's rim.

My expected value of the 70% lucky coin is 0.7 times $40 (the effect of a winning toss) less 0.3 times $10 (the effect of a losing toss) which gives me an expected value of $25.

The payoff-times-probability value for this bet is 3-times-0.7-times-$10 which equals $21


The payoff-times-probability for a 70% lucky coin does not appear to be the same as it's expected value for all cases of coin luck, as demonstrated in the comparison of the above two examples.

I wish to experience the optimal bet fraction approaching luck at high payoffs.

I wish to do this by stepping through the values at various levels of luck utilizing your example.

I consider that actual trading may have low levels of luck and high levels of payoff so I believe it may be important to experience this by working through an example.

Are you able to confirm your formula for calculating the expected value of coin with say 70% luck?

I would appreciated your thoughts and correction if I am wrong.

Thank you.

Value based position sizing

I also wish to question your value based position sizing example in position sizing paragraph of the risk paper.

Your example of position sizing based on value does not anywhere show risking only 10% of the value.

I believe your example should read:

A million dollar account divides into twenty equal sub-accounts of $50,000 each for each stock.

The risk is 10% of the value of each sub-account, risking $5,000 on each stock.

Stock A position is $5,000 divided by $50 per share giving a position of 100 shares

If I'm correct, and your example omitted the multiplication of the sub-account by 10%, it's does not detract from the value of the paper as the risk basis position sizing is clearly superior to that of value based position sizing.

Thank you for your careful reading.  I am looking into it.



Wednesday, August 4, 2010

Willingness Testing

Dear Ed

I read the TT book,

I read the example whereby someone may walk off with your wallet if you are unwilling to feel anger.

I begin to understand and see the need to feel feelings.

I incorrectly assume that feeling feelings requires me to act on the feelings that come up, such as in the case of anger, to defend or vocalize my anger in order to protect myself, as in the wallet example above.

I have a drama whereby I vocalize my anger and I defend my boundaries as intensely as I can in "Screaming for intimacy" Mon, June 28, 2010

Ed chastises me.

I read post "Has trouble sticking to his system" Tues, July 13, 2010

I have an aha, Ed says "until you are willing to experience the feeling and let it go."

I realize that acting on a feeling is not required, just feeling it is.

I also realize from this same post that acting on some feelings may be a way to medicate or attempt to avoid the feelings that come up.

Ed identifies that I may have judgments about some feelings in "Sharing feelings" Mon, June 28 2010

I have an aha, I can't choose to feel only some feelings, I need to feel ALL my feelings and they are ALL equally important in moving me towards my right livelihood, even if (here's my judge again) they are "bad" feelings.

I have some confusion over the testing for willingness? Should I always receive, or only when someone indicates they wish to share feelings, or perhaps we should just go with the flow?

Please could you explain testing for willingness.

You might consider practicing willingness testing in your Tribe.

Tuesday, August 3, 2010

Wants a Therapist

Hello Mr. Seykota,

I am wondering if you are able to refer me to a therapist (professional / nonprofessional) in the Tahoe/Reno area that is familiar with the TT principle/theory, other than yourself.

Attending a local TT meeting as a guest here is unlikely as I am not familiar with any members of the Tribe or Tribal leaders in other areas. I assume there is an hierarchy to the Tribe, and the top is here.

I need to release my knots, COEXs (as in my Tharp course), Rocks, etc.. DIM is not working well, I feel as if I am on a rocky dirt road in search of the Zero Point. Think it might be better to get on the highway. I am fully committed to living in the NOW and moving forward in life.

I am sorry if I am breaking a ground rule with this question ... that is not my intent.

I do not publish a reference list for therapists.


In general, TTP ends therapy.



Psycho Therapist

One View of Therapy




The Rapist

Another View

Tuesday, August 3, 2010

Hooking Up With Brother

Hello Ed,

I attend the Austin Trading Tribe, during this past meeting we had to state what our project was and what completion meant. My project is to program a mechanical trend following trading system on to a computer platform. I will back test the system and trade it according to the rules. I will include a variance report to verify that I am trading the program according to the strategy. Getting my strategy programmed and to start trading it has brought up issues of procrastination and the distractions I come up with to avoid getting things done. Obviously, I will need to work on these issues at the next Tribe meeting.

Later on during the meeting, a Tribesman worked on his feelings toward his father. In particular, he recalled an instance in which his father yelled at him while he was preparing his entry for a soap box derby. His father expressed anger and impatience because he was afraid his son's entry wouldn't be ready or properly built. Then his father proceeded to administer a browbeating as he drove him to the race and he also showed disgust when his soap box car didn't weigh enough and became angry again when his son lost the race. He then role-played with another Tribesman standing in as his father. During this exchange, he related his feelings to his father and said he felt sad and angry. He also asked his father what feelings he had while he was berating him. In both instances, the father stopped his abusive behavior and acknowledged his and his son's feelings. I feel that sending and receiving feelings is a great way of communicating because it allows a two way interchange. Rather than a situation where one person is trying to dominate another.

Another Tribe member related an incident, when he was younger his mother would make him leave wrestling practice early so she could pick him up. Then when she did pick him up she would be in a bad mood and sometimes strike him if she thought he was talking back to her. I was able to role-play with the Tribesman as his mother. As I was berating him like his mother would, he expressed his feelings of anger, sadness and being unloved. While playing his mother, I would express her feelings of anger, sadness and loneliness. When the feelings were expressed I found it difficult to continue acting out the enraged behavior of the mother and began to focus on the feelings.

I can relate to both of the Tribe member's situations and how sending and receiving can change the dynamics in relationships for the better. My brother and I have had a rocky relationship throughout our lives. However, since joining the Austin Trading Tribe I have contacted my brother several times over the phone and we have shared our feelings. Recently, I spoke to him and, since he lives in Austin, we are planning to meet for lunch or coffee before a Tribe meeting. We haven't seen each other for over seven years since our mother died.

I cried ....

Thank you for sharing your process.





have a unique opportunity

to receive each other.







Clip: http://www.broadwayworld.com/article/





Tuesday, August 3, 2010



I have moved back to Fort Lauderdale, and I am loving the hot and humid weather. Back to training every day. Thanks for getting me into system dynamics, it's really transfers over into everything I do.


I hope you enjoy Texas.

Thank you for sharing.

Monday, August 2, 2010

Past and Present


I duplicated your results using the Simple Exponential Crossover system and the process destroyed my beliefs about system trading. If system optimization is based upon past performance, how can it help trade anything today?

Take care,

Like all things, Past Performance exists in the now or not at all.


I wonder, if you learn to speak French in high school, if has any bearing on your ability, today, to speak French.




Past Proficiency in French


is no guarantee of success

in speaking French today.


(government disclaimer - to protect you)


Clip: http://www.cellardoor.net.au/catalogue/


Sunday, August 1, 2010

Tribe Report

Dear Ed,

We complete our Austin Tribe meeting. One Tribe member on the hot seat has an issue with his Dad over a bowling situation. The Tribe member has a k-not and a judge. He acknowledges a tendency for other people to invalidate him. He is encouraged to experience the feeling and is asked if he is willing to feel it (willingness testing). Role play is used and different resources are utilized. He uses new technology by asking his dad about his feelings. He realizes that is not about an activity but about intimacy. He changes a lifetime of patterning.

I identify with the member as I see myself with my Dad in similar experiences. As the member on the hot seat works thru the process, he is an example for me and issues I had with my father. Later, I go thru the role play process with my father in a similar fashion and reach a different outcome.


Thanks to Ed and my fellow Tribe members for their support, insights, and encouragement.

Thank you for your report.  You might consider re-writing it in SVO-p.

Sunday, August 1, 2010


Contest of Interests

Hi Ed,

What interests you less following your system (trading) or doing art? How about 20 years ago?

thanks for your attention,


You might consider taking your feelings about <putting your interests into a contest> to Tribe.

Sunday, August 1, 2010

Skin In the Game

Hi Ed,

This quote is from the book review in the link above. It rhymes with TTP I think. Hope you are well.

<<<De Grey, in the vernacular of science, is a “skin out” person, someone who studies life whole. Naturalists, ecologists, field biologists and evolutionary biologists are in this category, whereas “skin in” people pursue cellular phenomena, “gadgets and widgets that are too small to see through a microscope,” Weiner writes. The dichotomy is captured in Francis Crick’s scolding of Stephen Jay Gould: “The trouble with you evolutionary biologists is that you are always asking ‘why’ before you understand ‘how.’ ” >>>





Thank you for the clip.


Back to the Future