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July 20-26, 2003



(Quotes from Ed in Red)


Fri, 25 Jul 2003


Getting to the Zero Point

"It is being able to read the markets directly and having no attachment to the ability to do."

Would you please elaborate more about how to deal with the feelings of trend following?

For instance, if in the now moment I have a strong fear about the market going lower and lower, I validate and experience the fear about the market going lower so as to get an insight about this feeling, rather than selling right out of it. Or perhaps, as we get to the Zero Point, the very judgment about the feeling does not exist and, therefore, thoughts and feelings become one.

I mean, if the latter is correct, this seems to be a very daring proposal that such a condition can be achieved through a mirroring process such as TTP, other than the normal learning curve of trial and error. Or, perhaps, these are my beliefs telling me that there is no other way to achieve such a goal?

Buying and selling are part of the external physical world of trading.


Feeling of fear and loss are part of your internal world.


When you buy or sell or hold, against the rules of your system, in order to accommodate your feelings, you are acting out a drama for Fred.


Fred intends for you to feel your feelings, even if Fred has to set up dramas to get your attention.


One of the intentions of TTP is to experience your feelings directly so Fred does not have to set up dramas to interfere with sticking to your trading system.



One test of being at peace

with your trading system


notice how you feel about sticking to it.


Clip: www.psrc.usm.edu/macrog/ macroplx/p-movies.htm

Thu, 24 Jul 2003


Celebrating Feeling

Date:  11:47:08 -0700

As you recommended in a FAQ, in celebration of my missed gold signal, besides revving up the dichometer,


I am going to spend the rest of the day intentionally missing things and enjoying the feeling.


I played catch with my son a few minutes ago, and missed every catch ...


lemme tell you 'bout the one I missed.....

It's pretty easy to set up intentional dramas, such as missing the catch.


Be sure you don't substitute creating intentional drama about missing a catch in a low risk game, for the real work of experiencing the real feelings of missing a market.


If you send an illustrative clip, kindly send the source, so I can credit the site.


Expressing the feelings

of missing the catch


Mark Waugh drops two catches during the Monday, 7 October, 2002, cricket match between Australia and Pakistan.


Clip: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/


Thu, 24 Jul 2003


FAQ: dichotomy III

Hi Ed,

The first run through the dichotomy exercise resolved the size issue.


Now revealed are others to work through. This week on three occasions I experienced another habitual dichotomy, resulting in missed profit in gold, so did the exercise again.


On the one hand is putting the order in well ahead of time before the market opens. On the other hand is waiting until the last minute so I can see how the market is acting, maybe save a few cents on the entry, or avoiding an entry altogether if it just touches my number then heads the other way ... in other words, finessing it.


Gold this week was not in a finessing mood. It just went straight up. Over time, I've documented that the result of this waiting behavior is getting 100% of the bad trades and missing 50% of the good trades, nevertheless, it was a habit, and I kept doing it.

As in the first dichotomy resolution, surprising manifestations of feelings appeared, then dissolved. Now as a result, I put in my orders ahead of time without waiting for finesse, and caught the beginning of a nice short squeeze today.


I am the squeezor, not the squeezee


Clip: http://www.nationaloutsource.com/

There are lots of ways to play a squeeze.  Fred has his favorites for each of us.



Lots of Opportunities to Play


You can be the boy, the girl, the business, the customer, the banker

or even the lemon.



Clip: http://www.mizjenna.com/


Thu, 24 Jul 2003



Dear Mr Seykota,

What is meant by "long-term" in "long-term trend-following" as you understand it?

Yours sincerely,

One of Einstein's favorite jokes about relativity is:


Supposing an old lady sits in your lap for a minute, a minute seems like an hour. But if a beautiful girl sits in your lap for an hour, an hour seems like a minute.


In general, I use these relative notions about trade durations:


Floor Trade - position lasts a few moments.


Day trade - position comes off before the close.


Short term trade - position lasts a few days or less.


Medium term trade - position lasts a few weeks.


Long term trade - position lasts several months.


Position trade - position still on.





After all these years,

it's still all relative


Clip: http://www.gorskys.com.au/


Wed, 23 Jul 2003


TTP On, Drama Off

I'd bet you are really a now kind of guy ... including all the thoughts about the past and future you have right now.

The feeling of discomfort and anxiety has dissipated and I feel good about being in the now moment. This also happened to solve some unresolved doubts I had about the TTP as applied to trading, discipline and the learning curve. I am and exist in the now moment. A mental or emotional dissociation from the present moment may resolve into drama.


Wed, 23 Jul 2003


Trading Workshop


Who will be the presenters at your workshop in October?

The presenters at the October Workshop are Ed Seykota, in person, and some assistants.

Wed, 23 Jul 2003


Commodity Corp

Ed, What ever happened to Commodity Corporation?

In the spring of 1997, Goldman Sachs Asset Management, acquires 27-year old Commodities Corporation Limited, the Princeton, New Jersey- based asset management subsidiary of Stockton Holdings Limited, a Bermuda specialty reinsurance company.

Wed, 23 Jul 2003


TTP announcement review

Now that I see it in print, your line was even a bit better than I remembered from your reading:

Dissolving What's between you and being great.

One thought: Several times in FAQ you've referenced a certification process. You may get some questions about how this workshop relates to that, whether this is the beginning of that process, or the completion, etc.

The October workshop confers no particular license or certification ... its purpose is to master the theory and practice of TTP and how it applies to trading ... in a workshop format.


Tue, 22 Jul 2003


re: 7/17/03 comment

Sorry to waste time for both of us

It was a pretty simple question, badly over worded. You are right. My fault. Must have gotten carried away after reading some of the stuff on the site.

If both are supposedly the Kelly Formula, which one is right, which one is wrong?

That was it.

I'll figure it out.

By the way, is that you or me in the picture you posted?

Somewhat respectfully,

Clarifying meanings and developing agreements seems like a pretty good use of now.



Sophia Loren


A moment of clarity in the dark.


The image that goes straight to the heart with a pleasure that's almost painful.


This is what you want, what you long for.


Not to possess, but to be.


This is the shape that becomes the dream you pray will mold you while you sleep so that you can awake reborn inside those contours.


The owner of that potent silhouette.


-- Josie Hayes 



Clip and text:



Tue, 22 Jul 2003

My Favorite Quotes from Old Turkey

1) It never was my thinking that made the big money for me. It always was my sitting. Got that? My sitting tight

2) Man who can both be right and sit tight are uncommon. I found it one of the hardest things to learn

3) Old Turkey was dead right in doing and saying what he did. He had not only the courage of his convictions but the intelligent patience to sit

4) Old Turkey would cock his head to one side, contemplate his fellow customer with a fatherly smile, and finally he would say very
impressively, "You know, it's a bull? / bear? market!" He really meant to tell that the big money was not in the individual fluctuations but in the main movements - that is, not in reading the tape but in sizing up the entire market and its trend.

5) Wait until you see -- or if you prefer, until you think you see -- the turn of the market; the beginning of a reversal of general conditions ...

Old Turkey is the long term trend follower in Edwin LeFevre's classic, Reminiscences of a Stock Operator.


Old Turkey seems willing to feel all the feelings that arise during a long term move, even enjoy them.


When you allow your feelings to be, they tend to not interfere with your trading.



Old Turkey


Enjoys the feelings

of staying with a winning position.




Tue, 22 Jul 2003


TTP announcement


You wrote a great line: Find out what stands between you and greatness.

Don't know if easily conveyed in an announcement, but some disclaimer / warning / notice that as a result of TTP some traders lives have morphed; into golfers, institutional managers, folk singers, etc.

...that if the desire to trade emanates from some subconscious Gordian knot which gets dissolved in the TTP, the participant may suddenly see he really wants/needs to do other work for his particular right livelihood. More likely that he will see how to trade better or pick/design a better system, of course.

... or maybe each finds out about this life-changing potency of the TTP in his own way ...

Overall, the announcement is very complete, informative, non-hyped, reasonably priced.

I've organized, spoken at, marketed, lots of successful seminars over the past 20 years, so happy to help out according to need. At very least, I could give a testimonial or two of how TTP has changed my trading.

Yes, one of the surprising things about TTP is that it seems to work  and people's lives change toward right livelihood.


Some people expand their trading businesses, and others move on to other things.


Sometimes they resolve their dramas and sometimes they just transport them to other fields.


I welcome reports on how TTP works for people and post many of them here..



Snow Golf


When Fred has drama in mind

the results are often amazing.


Clip: http://www.theice.org/gifs/golf.gif

Tue, 22 Jul 2003


Dichotomy Follow-up

Hi Ed,

Yesterday my method called for some big orders to be placed. I did the calculation for size according to risk parameters and placed the orders.

Sounds simple. It is.

However, prior to the recent meeting, when determining size, risk, placing orders, a great feeling of angst used to well up and I would put in smaller orders, or sometimes an aggressive feeling of knowing the future welled up and I

placed bigger orders.


Because of these emotions I would not often do the order in the size my method indicated was optimum.

Since going through the dichotomy resolution process at the Tribe meeting, those feelings which influenced order size are just absent. No inner battles. No NLP mudras. Just not a problem anymore.






Size Matters


Drama about size can disappear.


Clip: www.winesquire.com/articles/ champsize.htm

Tue, 22 Jul 2003



Dear Mr. Seykota,

What Do you think of Dow`s determining the market in primary, secondary and tertiary movements or "tide", "waves" and "ripples" and his recommendation to trade only in the direction of the tide and to use the waves for market-timing?

Yours sincerely,

Dow Theory is consistent with Following Trends. 


Dow Theory  does not speak to the issues of position sizing, portfolio selection, risk management or maintaining a cheerful outlook.




Charles H. Dow


The Components of the Dow Jones Average keep changing over time, so the DJIA is really a track record reflecting a portfolio selection strategy. 


Many of the original components went bust long ago.


Clip: http://steve.dow.net/roots.htm

Mon, 21 Jul 2003


7/17/03 Risk Model Comment

Hello, Ed

Thanks for the response. I realize you don't and should not do precise input of that nature. I guess my question might rephrase a bit more/less? succinctly to:

Of the 2 formulas, which one includes adequate inputs to get the most accurate result when analyzing this general type of risk scenario?


Is the format I listed badly flawed? Or, is there some web or other location where I could get a bit more of a handle on the logic behind the conceptual math? The 2 families of results are obviously fairly different unless you have a breakeven payoff.

As an aside ... the CM/Fred thing seems maybe a bit trite to me, however these things often do until you get a clear look at exactly what is being described, from your own particular vantage point. The issue being addressed there is certainly universal and always quite tricky.

Thanks again,

You might ask three friends of yours to read your questions (this one and the one on 7/17) and, without any further hints from you, try to write a paragraph explaining what in the world you are talking about.


You might report the results of that experiment to FAQ.



Experiencing The Feelings of Confusion

can sometimes clarify things


Asking ambiguous questions

can be part of a drama

to generate feelings of confusion.


Clip: www.snsin.com/leomohan/


Mon, 21 Jul 2003


The Path

Thanks for showing me the path and encouragement Chief!

I am a member of the local Trading Tribe, but not the tribe lead.

May I ask you to consider me for your “Certification of Mastery” plan? And please let me know if I can be a helping hand for you by any means.

I feel that you are the best teacher for me. (Of course after the Gravity who teaches me how to walk)

I consider Gravity to be an excellent teacher. It is consistent, non judgmental, and teaches everyone how to walk without saying a word. (FAQ Mon, 16 Jun 2003)

I'm not a teacher: only a fellow-traveler of whom you asked the way. I pointed ahead-ahead of myself as well as you. --
George Bernard Shaw (1856-1950), Anglo-Irish playwright, critic.







I am offering a 3-day Workshop in October ... see Workshop, above.

Mon, 21 Jul 2003


Hi Ed,

The more I think about your story of the Cisco engineer, the more amazing, yet perfectly sensible, it becomes in my mind.


Post-hypnotic suggestion to generate a sell signal is way beyond the CM's capacity to analyze wiggly lines on a chart. And Fred came through, it worked, That engineer really got his money's worth in your consultation, then didn't follow your advice.

I see why television is really boring, as your experiential life is 100 times more interesting. If this story were ever published, people would be lined up outside your door to get their post-hypnotic implants !

You are quite an unusual soul ...

Fred and Under Fred sometimes work in strange and amazing ways.


Sometimes hypnotism can help reduce drama ... sometimes hypnotism can be part of the drama.





is sometimes a drama.




Hypnotism works best

when parties align expectations




For Heavy-Duty Problems



Clips: www.occultopedia.com/ h/hypnosis.htm







Mon, 21 Jul 2003


This is really amazing...

Your theories mirror what I have been deducing ... although the vaccination with the bad stuff-it is kind of the way allergy shots work-did not occur to me except to think it would be nice if that were possible.

You are right. When I was a kid, my mom hit me if I looked sad about something she said, she threw a lot of temper tantrums, and it was my job to take care of the house and look after things because she was busy.

During my senior year when I was so sick with things like mumps and fevers and all, I remember trying to understand calculus while only going to class one day every three weeks, and being frustrated and in

 tears because I couldn't.

Her response was to throw my dad's pipe ashtray at me and hit me in the face with it, so somewhere


I got the feeling I should always put my feelings last and get everyone else squared away first.


I can remember being 8 and realizing this was weird ... and somehow I have pretty much raised my kids to be different, so now they are all over me to do stuff I like, etc ... My poor dad just did not want to make waves ... Well we can go into this later ... thanks for turning on the lights, and I guess one more thing I recall from married sex was that if I said something felt good, [XXX] would instantly quit doing it.


So instead of distancing myself from people with problems, I took it upon myself to try and fix them ... the thing I do know, though, is that it can get better.

Good start ... you might continue by exploring your feelings of being unsatisfied / not being able to understand things / having to put yourself last.



Treat Your Children Well


Small things and actions

may seem big to them.


Clip: www.leafandale.com/images/



Sun, 20 Jul 2003


Private Coaching

The results I want:

I want change by discovering myself.
I want communication with my wife, my son and my friends.
I want lasting relationships with people.
I want to live in the now.
I want a mentor.

I want to see what I want.

Occasionally, I mentor on a private basis. 


I generally recommend a workshop format, since the participants seem to gain a lot from their interactions with each other.


See Workshop, above.