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November 23-30, 2003



(Quotes from Ed in Red)


Sun, 30 Nov 2003


Co-dependent (Inter Tribe Email)

ref: Co-dependency

Co-dependency is an emotional and behavioral condition that affects an individual’s ability to have a healthy, mutually satisfying relationship.


Co-dependents typically exhibit “relationship addiction;" they form or maintain relationships that are one-sided, emotionally destructive and/or abusive. Symptoms include:

An exaggerated sense of responsibility for the actions of others.

A tendency to confuse love and pity, with the tendency to “love” people they can pity and rescue.

A tendency to do more than their share, all of the time.

A tendency to become hurt when people don’t recognize their efforts.

An unhealthy dependence on relationships. The co-dependent will do anything to hold on to a relationship; to avoid the feeling of abandonment.

An extreme need for approval and recognition.

A sense of guilt when asserting themselves.

A compelling need to control others.

Lack of trust in self and/or others.

Fear of being abandoned or alone.

Difficulty identifying feelings.

Rigidity/difficulty adjusting to change.

Problems with intimacy/boundaries.

Poor communications.

Difficulty making decisions.

A typical pattern:
1) Acknowledge the problem
2) Validate the problem
3) Explain (justify) the problem
4) Continue with solving (drama) the problem.

TTP treats co-dependency the same way it treats other forms of emotional conditions: namely,  by encouraging communication of experience between Fred and CM.


Once the experience passes freely, Fred no longer needs to arrange drama to focus attention on the experience, the emotional control panel clears and drama tends to disappear.


Analytic therapies are typically ineffective in promoting the flow of experience between Fred and CM.  Furthermore, they tend to enroll the analyst as another actor in the drama.


Lists of symptoms (left) can be useful in TTP as entry points, to start the process of locating and expressing feelings.


A good receiver (listener) typically encourages communications of all types, including analytics and other experience avoidance strategies. 


He may then call attention to the sender's analytics (without responding to the content) by encouraging, "that's great ... do more of that ... keep analyzing and avoiding showing any feeling."  This tends to dissolve the analytics so the sender can continue approaching the feeling.


Attempts on the part of the receiver to engage the analytical content, "ok, ok, that's a trust issue, you're co-dependent all-rightie," runs the risk derailing TTP by enabling further avoidance drama.


Co-dependents tend to relate to the markets the same way they relate to other people.  In trading, lack of trust in self, holding on, controlling, trouble adjusting to change, and difficulty making decisions all tend to work against long-term profitability.



It's all Experience ...


even wanting to avoid experiencing.



Clip: http://www.thesee.com/images/


Sun, 30 Nov 2003


Happy Thanksgiving

to You and Your Family

Dear Ed,

Have you and your family a wonderful and joyful Thanksgiving Holiday !!!

P.S. My life has changed ever since I started to adhere to the principles of TTP and in particular to trend following. I feel power and am powerful and I need be as I am becoming a father. You have allowed me to regroup all my forgotten talents in order to implement (in C++), test and deploy a profitable and fully automated futures trading platform over the last 12 months. Without your perspective on life I would have never dreamed of being able to achieve this objective.

Forever grateful !!!

Congratulations on your fatherhood. Parenting is Job #1.





holding his young teacher



Clip: http://users.lmi.net/


Sat, 29 Nov 2003



Hi Ed,

I recently found your website, it has great
information. I have a question about myself. When I was in third grade


I remember a situation in class explicitly. The teacher asked the question 'does heat rise or sink?'.


I raised my hand that heat rises, while the rest of the class raised for sink. One girl in the class yelled at me saying why would the mountains be cold if heat rises?


The teacher asked me if I wanted to change my answer. The mountain logic seemed right so I changed my answer. Once the truth came out the same girl in class yelled at me again saying I should have stayed with my original answer.


I'm now 30 years old and have always been a contrarian. I'm wondering if this episode helped contribute to my always going against the crowd or if it's just in a persons nature to do so?


Hot air rises.  Heat is a property of mass and neither rises nor falls. Air in the mountains has lower pressure, and by PV=NRT has lower temperature.


Sometimes the public is on the trend, sometimes against it, so a trend follower may sometimes be a contrarian.


To explore your own feelings about the yelling lass in your physics class, you might take them to a Tribe meeting.




Mary Mary Quite Contrary

How Does your Garden Grow?


A true contrarian would be

out there with her watering can

in the middle of winter.




Sat, 29 Nov 2003


Hi Ed,

You don't know me and I don't know you. But I've been reading FAQ for more than a few months.

I'm a graduate student of Literature at Rutgers, and I like what I like. I can't help it.

I saw "Borderline - A Fractal Poem" this morning, and then I read it. I like it. It made me think of a group of poets and artists I thought that you might like to know about if you haven't heard of them. The group is  [xyz]. They use patterns from mathematics, logic, chess and others they make up as constraints (which is, of course, what poetic forms are) and then they go on to show how those constraints are really the seeds of creative potential, that anything that seems like a limit has some loophole, how there will be "errors" in all systems. They're a great bunch of fun. They are an extension of Surrealism and DADA, and all that came before those movements, just like I'm the son of my father and mother. The big daddy of the group is (dead) Georges Perec who wrote an entire novel without using any e's, and wrote the worlds longest known palindrome of something like 500 or 5000 words. Italo Calvino is the other (dead) well known figure. The group still meets, in Paris I think, and they are one of the longest standing literary groups. There are lots of other groups of artists, musicians and so forth clustered around them that might be of interest to you.

I hope all goes well with you and your book and any more poems you may chose to produce (or do they produce us?).

A reader,


Fri, 28 Nov 2003



Ed -

Happy thanksgiving! Quick question - Have you ever used trend following to trade currencies / FOREX? This market appears to be very receptive to trend following and is still "new" to the retail investor.


I wonder if this newness is similar to the futures and stock markets in the early 70's, when trend following worked much better then it does now.

Your thoughts are appreciated.

Thanks and take care.

FAQ does not endorse  traders or commercial products, or offer instrument-specific trading advice,


If you continue to work your trading according to Trend Following principles, you tend to make more money in vigorously trending markets.


If you select trending markets to trade, you may enhance your chances of catching some good trends.



To Catch More Fish


go where the fish are.


Clip: http://www.whitehouse.gov/


Fri, 28 Nov 2003


Ultimate Intention

Hi Ed,

Could you please elaborate about your ultimate intention? (see TTP Ground Rules)

Would the FAQ and Trading Tribe disappear sometime next year?

It seems to keep disappearing and re-appearing.




Clip: http://www.simons-rock.edu/~dand/



Fri, 28 Nov 2003


Good Morning,

I would like to know when Seykota gonna present other seminar.


He do it in this ever-evolving moment of now, likely when now is 2004.



Standing in Numbers






Fri, 28 Nov 2003

Co-Dependency & e-TTP

Dear e-friends,

It's said that Fred likes to set up dramas where the individual has less risk control. I have this feeling (actually certainty) that my biggest dramas are in the realm of relationships. So I wish and I need to share more about this disturbing issue:

Co-dependency is a learned behavior that can be passed down from one generation to another. It is an emotional and behavioral condition that affects an individual’s ability to have a healthy, mutually satisfying relationship. It is also known as “relationship addiction” because people with codependency often form or maintain relationships that are one-sided, emotionally destructive and/or abusive.

Here I also outline underlying feelings which can be taken into TTP:

An exaggerated sense of responsibility for the actions of others. A tendency to confuse love and pity, with the tendency to “love” people they can pity and rescue. A tendency to do more than their share, all of the time. A tendency to become hurt when people don’t recognize their efforts. An unhealthy dependence on relationships. The co-dependent will do anything to hold on to a relationship; to avoid the feeling of abandonment. An extreme need for approval and recognition. A sense of guilt when asserting themselves. A compelling need to control others. Lack of trust in self and/or others. Fear of being abandoned or alone. Difficulty identifying feelings. Rigidity/difficulty adjusting to change. Problems with intimacy/boundaries. Poor communications Difficulty making decisions.

I acknowledge all of these difficulties or problems, although generally in the context of relationships (e.g., poor communications, difficulty making decisions and identifying feelings).

I wonder someone can actually 'receive' all of this.

Best regards,

You seem to like to continue to solve solve your "co-dependency" with e-TTP.


Email-TTP (e-TPP) is inherently a conscious process, so it is easy to avoid the emotional abreaction that results from in-person Tribal TTP.


So the e-receivers might not really be facilitating Fred to communicate experience with CM as much as they are facilitating (enabling) all the CM's to develop a co-dependent network, the content of which is "trying" to get better.


As such, the sender, rather than experiencing his co-dependency, is acting it out by enrolling the receivers in it.


The receivers might consider encouraging the sender to find or create an actual Tribe in his area so he can cut the analytics and get down to the real work.




Oxycontin ®

A lot of the effect

is in how you use it.


Oxycodone, like morphine is a Schedule II analgesic. You can use it as time-release tablets to control pain - or you can ab-use it by crushing and sniffing it or dissolving and injecting it for a co-dependent high.


Clip and Information:

www.prescription-drug-rehab.com/ oxycodone.html

Thu, 27 Nov 2003


Pain in Brain


Can you explain how the brain, which contains no pain receptors at all, produces painful sensations in the body when a negative stimulus produces a negative
emotion ?

You might take your "negative" emotions into TTP, to experience them and to find their positive intentions.




The Brain


Useful for explaining things,

except perhaps,

how the brain works.



Thu, 27 Nov 2003



Dear Ed,

Today on Thanksgiving day, both the Manhattan tribes would like to express our deepest gratitude to you for allowing us to use your methods and all for free.

This is one time where 'you get what you pay for' is NOT true ! Your methods (TTP, Dream, Goals and Hardball) have made significant difference in all of our lives.

Through your work you have fostered a great sense of community and friendship between members and among the various tribes around the world.

Thanks for opening a window into your mind.

All the best

You are welcome. The more you share, the more you seem to get.




To Freshen a Room

Open a window


works for minds, too,

and for hearts.



Thu, 27 Nov 2003


You might check your feelings about criticism.

I feel unease about it. In my upbringing I was demanded perfection (from imperfect people) to receive a piece of praise or support. That's the source, in great part, of my drive for perfection.

However, as an adult, this drama bothers me for being rather unable to cope in a healthy way with criticism or envy. I have also engaged into relationship dramas where I find myself miserably begging for approval, attention and love.

Psychotherapy aside, I am already tracking underlying feelings. Thanks.

P.S.: I have already scheduled our first virtual real time meeting for our group, as we experiment with closeness and cooperation within our group and hopefully encourage the experience of community where we live.

You seem to like to analyze your situation and find "causes." 


You also seem reluctant to use TTP in a direct face-to-face setting.


You might, then, proceed with TTP by consciously continuing to postpone up-close relating of your fear of up-close relating.






Sometimes means

sharing the feeling

of wanting to share the feeling




Thu, 27 Nov 2003

Wax On - Wax Off

Your website makes me think of ‘The Karate Kid’ and the old man’s wise instructions through unexpected methods.

In the spirit of sharing I thought I would share a simple system for the FX markets.

1) Mechanism uses hourly charts.

2) Enter position on 90 hour breakouts (closing basis).

3) Stops rise with 70 hour movement (trailing stops).

4) Do not follow the 90 hour bearish breakout if the 30 hour EMA (exponential moving average) is above the 200 hour EMA and the 240 hour EMA is above the 280 hour EMA. The trend is against such breakouts and they are normally false. Bearish signals use the reverse MA position.

5) The system is simple but it has a 35 pip positive expectation per contract after trading costs.

6) Gearing depends on the ‘heat’ you are willing to take.

7) I trade using 9 different crosses, most of them on the US dollar.

8) The portfolio high-water mark drawdown measured on a realized position basis (rather than mark to market valuations) is in the order of 1% of the portfolio per contract.

Thanks for your effort in sharing your principles. Principles correctly applied will always lead to a solution.



PS: Point 3) above should be 90 instead of 70.

FAQ does not endorse traders or commercial products, or offer instrument-specific trading advice, or recommend specific trading system parameters. See Ground Rules.


In general, short-term trading systems succumb to transaction costs and execution friction.


You might simulate your system over historical data and notice how sensitive it is to assumptions about where you get your fills.



Skid Effects Performance



Clip: http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/


Wed, 26 Nov 2003


From Intention ... to ... Result

Hello Ed

"Intention = Results"

You've made the above statement many times. I find it extremely powerful. My question to you is:

Can you please expound on this theory of experience? Can you touch on the evolution of experience from intention-to-result.



... and oh yes, happy thanks giving and happy holidays.

Take responsibility for your experience and you can see that intentions = results. 


Deny responsibility for your experience and a delta between intentions and results may appear.




The San Joaquin Delta


becomes more apparent

as you get the further away

from the flow.




Wed, 26 Nov 2003


Hi Chief !

Have a great Thanksgiving Holiday!

Thank you. Same to you and yours.



Wed, 26 Nov 2003

Happy Thanksgiving


I hope you and your family have a wonderful Thanksgiving!

Respectfully yours,

Thank You. Same to you and yours.




Yoda Sez:



an activity of respect,

acknowledgment and communion,



Tue, 25 Nov 2003

Does Fred Always Know

What He is Doing?

Do I understand correctly? Is the idea to please Fred? Fred is communicating experience. Fred's intention is to be helpful. Therefore I should listen to Fred. Do what Fred wants me to do.

A climax top confuses and puzzles me. I have mixed feelings.

I buy a stock. Stock price advances month after month. Price advances very fast. I feel everyone in the world wants to buy the stock and I am the only one who wants to sell. Great time to sell, profit is big. I sell.

I have mixed feelings. Calm feelings. Relaxed. Feeling I am breathing deeply. Feeling of distance from the action. Feeling release. The tension in my back is disappearing and I can sit back and sleep. But also feel worried or puzzled. What if the price continues to rise? Feel restless. Feel like I am sitting on an anthill and the ants are in my clothes biting me. Want to own the stock.

Sometimes I do not sell. I follow the trend. The price makes a big advance. Price reacts. Trend changes. I exit. Missed the big profit. Followed the trend and the profit slipped through my fingers. Feel cold and dirty. Feel like I'm all wet from being out in the cold rain.

The uncertainty makes me feel jittery and nervous. No matter what I do I feel bad. I worry if I exit and I worry if I hold.

Does Fred always know what he wants?

Fred wants only one thing: namely, to communicate experience to your Conscious Mind (CM).


When you receive Fred, and experience your feelings, you may get an AHA, and know what you want to do and how to do it.


You can take your feelings - about biting ants and being in the cold - into TTP for resolution and insight.


Otherwise, Fred may continue to get you to worry your positions in order to experiencing these feelings.


If you are willing to experience these feelings in the now, as the market moves, and use them as part of your emotional control panel, you may be able to sense and exit near the top.



Exiting at the Moment of Climax


 requires experience

and some degree of discipline.


Clip: www.s-trip.de/dc/html/stadtinfo/


Tue, 25 Nov 2003


Offering $750,000.00

Hello Mr. Seykota,

I happen to read about you in The Market Wizards, I am taking on your advice to find the best trader to trade for me.


I can invest from $500,000 to $1,000,000 with a commitment of at least 10 years. I am looking for some one with a history of making at least 20% return compound annually. Please give directions and recommendations.

Something about me:

I am Vietmanese-American, married, have two boys, 17 and 15 years old. I came to this country in 1975, currently a real estate broker in Orange county, California. I make my money during the last 4 years by investing in real estate, mostly as one lot developer.


I consider myself a lucky guy happen to be in the right market. I am thinking real estate market in Orange county is about to top out so I want to find something to invest my money. I has been trading stock market for about five years, so far I has been in the positive about $200,000.00 mostly by luck and seem like I take a lot of risk.


The thing is this, I do not believe in luck. I want to be a good investor, I do not believe in following the crowd.


Still I am trying to figure out who I am as a trader.


I seem to like the way James Rogers Jr. approach to investing. Your trading style of "Moment" in the "Now" seem like the best for "The Best". Any way I am lucky to find you (another lucky chance). Thank you in advance for your help I enjoy for "FAQ" a lot and very impress with your illustrative answers.

P.S. I have a question "How to help the helpless?"

Thanks again.

FAQ does not FAQ does not endorse  traders or commercial products.  See Ground Rules.


Compound rate of return is only one of several properties of traders.  Volatility and consistency are others.


You might consider taking your feelings about "good" trading - and your feelings about "helpless" into TTP.  You might find out more about who you are and who you are looking for.




Wise Old Owl


Pondering Who



Note to Traders

There is plenty of money out there

awaiting good management.


Clip: http://www.onceuponatoon.com/







Mon, 24 Nov 2003

Ugly, Boring and Stupid


1. I do not know what is my problem. I lose consistently in the markets. What should I do ?

2. I have a mechanical long-term trend-following system. I tested it and it
works according to historical results.

3. I cannot stick to my winning system. I do not know why it is so difficult.

4. I feel I could do better trading discretionary. Maybe I am dead wrong.

5. As I started to write these letter I wanted to finish here but the following thoughts and feelings came to my mind:

I hate trend-following!! I hate long term trading !! I despise mechanical trading !! I feel it is UGLY, BORING and STUPID ! I feel I want to make quick buck in a sexy way NOW !! I feel humiliated when I follow trends !!

When I write this I feel energy and warm in the chest and aggression. I want to hit somebody hard !!

Best Regards

FAQ does not tell people what to do.  See ground rules.  You are likely working out some or another drama.


IF you take your feelings into TTP, you may be able to resolve them towards an AHA.




Experiencing the Feeling

of Wanting to Hit


may discharge the need to do so

into an AHA.


Clip: http://www.escja.com/images/boxing.gif

Mon, 24 Nov 2003

Toronto Trading Tribe Workshop

Report from the Leadership

Hi Ed,

We had a one day workshop for our experienced tribe members on Saturday. The TTP Skills exercise (pass/no pass) had been introduced in our previous evening meeting so we spent Saturday working on our Snapshots, the Hardball Process and Making a Commitment.

We spent several hours on the Snapshot and it was a powerful and emotional experience. Hardball lived up to its name for me as it was very hard and I was exhausted afterwards. We have a great group of people who courageously dove right to work and produced a quality experience for everyone involved.

While our bi-weekly meetings will continue, we will also be getting together again in four months for a follow-up meeting to check-in on how everyone is doing with their commitments.

Sharing the knowledge from Reno with the group and witnessing the results is a very good learning experience for me. I find this work very rewarding and it is certainly helping to stir things up in all areas of my life.

All the best,


Mon, 24 Nov 2003

Misuse of Your Name

Possible misuse of your name.



Thank you for the advice.  I wonder how this is working for them.

Mon, 24 Nov 2003


Copy of Inter-Tribe Memo

Toronto Workshop


Dear [Presenters],

Thank you very very much for hosting the one day tribe workshop. It was amazing. Something big has shifted for me. I feel like the parking brake has been released and I am freer to move forward without the drag of having the brake on.

Snap shot and hardball combined are a very powerful technology. The visual and visceral experience during hardball were unbelievable. I have tried allot of different things but the experience of this process is totally unique and extremely potent. I know it's still early so I will patiently observe the results in the NOW.

Thanks again from the bottom of my heart,


Sun, 23 Nov 2003

Catholicism and Mysticism


I would like you to know that I have also been applying the TTP principles to long time issues about mysticism.


I could never find a balance between following my religion (Catholicism) and the knowledge of the Western Esotericism (Qabala, Astrology and Alchemy).


In our current time both are still in conflict although to a lesser degree than in former times. TTP feels, at least for me, like the missing link between them. Strong conflicts and opposition arise from judgments on both sides. So, I am exploring with grumpy judge feelings of guilt about getting in contact with mysticism.












The Missing Link


might have something to do

with the heart.











Sun, 23 Nov 2003

Helping Others

I would like to let you know that I am currently experiencing with my feelings about commitment to integration into a community (in work, family, groups and relationships), as well as about sharing and cooperation.


Actually, I am kind of following the opposite path: rather than focusing on achieving my current goal, how do I feel about helping other people achieving their goals?


Or, how do I feel about sharing what I know and using my resources to help other people achieve their dreams (I do have an issue here).

As always, I track the bodily sensations. Usually strong contractions or jolts in the abdomen. Pressure from inside out all over the body and head. Great stress and tension.

Yes.  In turning outward, toward  others, you may find what's inside yourself.





Lost In Service to Others


we find the best in ourselves.


Clip: http://www.art-community.com/


Sun, 23 Nov 2003


Intention - Being Yourself

Ed's ultimate intention for The Trading Tribe and for TTP is for people to experience it, and for it to disappear and become just another passing AHA.

Yes! Ed, I must confess one concern I have always had when applying to start a tribe is the potential influence of your fame on tribe followers. I mean, given your fame as a 'Market Wizard', and I do think you truly are one, people might be inclined to get to know TTP to investigate about your way of doing things, rather than celebrating their way of doing things.


I myself, since I got to know about you and Soros, I took you both as great models, as well as Michael Marcus. Gradually, as I evolved as a trader and got to know myself better, I acknowledged the day I could follow my system signals faithfully, with no concern about Ed, Soros or Marcus, than I would know I had become a trader.


You, in a certain way, helped to achieve this goal. The TT community has taught me, from heart to heart, that the best person and trader I can be, I already am. And it's my choice to accept this truth or not.