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TTP Workshop - October 24-26 - Reno

guest presenter: Charles Faulkner





October 1-11, 2003



(Quotes from Ed in Red)


Sat, 11 Oct 2003



(from some e-TTP work)

S: I am afraid of losing money. Losing money scares me.

R: How does this feeling of fear about losing money manifests itself? Location, temperature, size, pressure, etc.?

S: I'm too scared to take risks, too afraid of losing... or rather, not of losing, of losing faith in myself and my system in an inevitable drawdown. Thinking of this I feel scared... feeling scared makes me look for a solution.

R: Fear is the solution.

S: I HAVE the solution, but I dont DO it ...

R: If you have the solution and all you need is permission, you can likely give it to yourself.

TTP works by connecting Fred and CM through experiencing feelings.


Analysis and figuring it all out are optional, often counterproductive.

Fri, 10 Oct 2003


In a Rut

Hi. Been a while since I posted ...

I'm stuck. In a rut. Not doing what I want to do. I think I want to ... so why aren't I?


Not doing anything productive that can lead anywhere ... just passing time, really. My conservative investments make me enough money to live off (at present... things may change. Good investments may go bad ... ) and by keeping a simple standard of living and making sacrifices I spend less than I earn, and can therefore grow my capital a little each month ... So I do nothing ...


Nothing to do with trading (why bother if doing it myself scares me and someone else manages to make a reasonable amount without losing any) and nothing to do with other areas of life, as I don't actually "need" anything, or can do without, so why make the effort to get anything?

This isn't how it could be, I think. I feel angry with myself. My fists clench, I hear a low growl, my stomach feels funny, light. I call myself useless, lazy, pathetic.


I tell myself I'm not being very *responsible* with my capital, or my life for that matter, if things go wrong I won't have enough to live off and I wont know what to do. I tell myself that I'm not taking advantage of the gifts I have, that I'm not learning anything, or *growing*.


As I realize that this road can only lead to a wasted (judgment) life and personal "shrinkage" (presupposition that it has to lead somewhere) I feel scared. I imagine where this state of unproductively will lead. I feel a shiver in my spine, I swallow, my throat feels dry, I pick a my fingers and nails, I bite my lip, tell myself "come on ... come on ...".


I "freeze" in my mind... as if waiting for inspiration, an idea, something. I hear nothing but an almost inaudible buzz. Time seems to stop for a few seconds ... Then I feel frustration (perhaps helplessness?) as I realize I don't know what to do. That even if I did it wouldn't make any difference, so why bother?


Then the part of me that hasn't *retired* tries to motivate me. I realize that I know exactly what to do, and that the reasons for my feeling this way are simply that I'm not doing it. But I cant be bothered to do it, or am too scared to try with 100% - maybe it wont work? - and as results = intentions there seems little point in doing anything with less than 100%.


But then I tell myself "work the plan, that's all you can do, that's all anyone can do. There are no guarantees!" I feel better, motivated, and decide to start ... later. Always *later*. Now its MUCH *later*...

Later, when I realize I haven't started yet, the pattern starts all over again ...

Any insights?

When you can come to celebrate the experience of being in a rut, the rutty-ness may disappear and leave it's grin behind.




  "All right," said the Cat


and this time it vanished quite slowly, beginning with the end of the tail, and ending with the grin, which remained some time after the rest of it had gone.


"Well! I've often seen a cat without a grin," thought Alice; "but a grin without a cat! It's the most curious thing I ever saw in my life!"


-- Alice in Wonderland


Clip: http://hem.spray.se/eva.ekeblad/





Experience the Body


and watch it disappear.


Clip: http://www.incnetwork.demon.



Fri, 10 Oct 2003


e-TTP - Anger

(from inter-Tribe correspondence)

I find myself stuck in a relationship where my needs are not acknowledged and I feel like exploding of rage. I feel like screaming out loud in anger and throwing everything off. I frown with anger and rage. I contract my muscles and body in anger and rage.

A good receiver can help you stay with your feelings of anger and rage until you fully experience them. 


If you find yourself "stuck" with a poor receiver, you might check if you are really willing to have a good one, if you are giving clear requests, etc.



A Good Receiver


Is easy to find

when you are ready for one.


If you are not ready,

you can experience that, too.


Clip: http://www.knpr.org/rrs.html


Thu, 9 Oct 2003


My Drama


If the result is the intention, then on a frequent basis I trade poorly to bring myself to a state of rage.


This is a common theme in my TTP sessions too. However, I have yet to feel any satisfaction from this experience, as if I have not allowed myself to fully experience the full force of this rage.


The world is a dark place when I get to this point. I feel worthless just as my mother screamed at me when I was a small child ... "you are good for nothing, you do nothing but make my life miserable, I wish I never had you!!!"


I really hate how this unfolds in my trading. I don't feel like a healthy person when this happens. I say to myself "what is wrong with me?"


The twin dogs of Judgment and Unwillingness guard the gates to the house of AHA.


When you become willing to experience your rage (not the same as acting it out) and when you can experience it without judgment (hint: experience the judgment first) then you can get to the AHA.



Even Twin Dogs can be Friendly




Thu, 9 Oct 2003



Mr. Seykota, you say that "One way to minimize slippage effects is to trade
infrequently." Would you please clarify what YOU define as "infrequently?"

Thank you.

One way measure trading frequency is to notice if your results are sensitive to transaction costs. 


In general, if you trade a market a few times a year and hold a position for months when you are right, transactions costs become irrelevant.

Wed, 8 Oct 2003


Day trading

Dear Mr. Seykota,

You stated that;

ďas trade duration decreases, so does the expectation of profit per trade. There is, however, no associating decrease in transaction cost per trade. So for increasing transaction frequency, the profit / cost ratio deteriorates.Ē

Within the context of this issue there are a number of considerations that, to some extent, counter these apparent disadvantages to day trading.

1) As transaction frequency increases so does volume traded. As volume traded increases transaction costs fall due to reduced commission rates. (brokers tear their commission rates according to the volume you trade. The volume traded to commission rate correlation is negative.

2) The expected profit is a function of both price change and position size. Day traders can take larger positions in proportion to equity because they donít have to consider overnight price gaps in their assessment of risk.

I will also point out that although many day traders have gambling tendencies, some may not. The most consistent day trader in my clan has gone 8 months without a losing day, 1 year with only 2 losing days and has been profitable for the last 78 months and counting. He doesnít fit the profile of a gambler as I know it. But then he hasnít been interviewed and published by Mr. Schwager, so he and his trading record donít exist to the people who donít sit beside him every day and trade. Seeing is believing.

You have also mentioned that pit traders who scalp are the profitable day traders due to their proximity to the place of trade execution. No doubt you are speaking from personal experience. Perhaps you know some profitable pit traders, and certainly your logic makes sense to me. I will add that some day traders who are not anywhere near the pit also make a living thanks to the speed of the internet and to perpetually evolving trading technology (user programmable decision assisting software etc.) My peers and I trade momentum and generally pay the bid/ask spread to get into and out of positions. In other words we donít scalp or trade counter to the prevailing trend of the day. (To paraphrase Reminiscences of a Stock Operator - the weapons change but the strategy remains the same).

As an aside, another group of day traders I know are what we call liquidity traders. They actually earn a living accumulating volume rebates from ECNís. The goal is to break even on your P n L while posting the maximum number of bids and offers. Each bid or offer that gets filled earns a fraction of a cent per share. (Yes the ECNís actually pay traders to post bids and offers because they are competing so fiercely for order flow and providing liquidity is their primary way of gaining a competitive advantage, so they pay for it, do a million shares a day on some of these extremely liquid NASDAQ big caps and it adds up to some decent cash. To me that sort of trading seems like pure monkey work, but to each their own. For some it all comes down to the ďBenjiesĒ at the end of each day.

Finally, to all those considering a career day trading, my advice to you is find yourself someone who does it successfully and model yourself on them. ie. you need a mentor, a guiding light. Day trading requires cutting edge technology and the stuff immediately available to the public is nearly useless in my opinion. It helps if someone can show you what the good stuff is, how to get it, how to program it, who the decent brokers are and on and on. But most of all you need a person who can help keep your chin up in those first 6 months to a year while you bleed equity Ö with no light in sight. Someone to counter all the voices telling you it canít be done, someone to counter the negative signs in your P n L at the end of each day. Someone to remind you that paying tuition to learn to trade, is just part of the process, that losing gracefully is vital to success. Obviously that voice carries allot more weight if it stands as living proof that what you are trying to do can be done. I believe we all need a mentor, I donít know anyone who has made it in this business without one.

With that said Mr. Seykota, Iíll take this opportunity to thank you for making so many of your insights part of the ďCollective ConsciousnessĒ. I have benefited from them as a person and a trader.

Peace and keep up the sharing, Iíll be reading.

1. While the "official" commission rate may fall to zero or even less, the actual transaction cost, including the spread, markup, skid, recognition delay and error and does not generally decrease with trading frequency.


2. As position size increases, transaction costs generally rise due to the large order effect.


If you know a consistently profitable day trader you might encourage him to share his audited track record and method.  As far as I know, none such exists.


Rather than try to force your chin up, you might consider experiencing it wanting to go down.  Same for markets as for chins.



Tasmanian Day-Trading Wizard

Rushing from Trade to Trade


Notice position of Chin



Clip: www.tasmania.tmfweb.nl




Wed, 8 Oct 2003


Purchasing Your Book

Dear Mr. Seykota,

I read in the FAQ section that you had begun printing your book. I would like to purchase one and would like to know where to go to purchase one.

Thank you very much.

Best regards,

The book is not yet in publication.

Tue, 7 Oct 2003


Something Different

Dear Ed Ė

Something very weird happened to me. It has nothing to do with trading but you of all people might be able to make some sense out of it. You are not obligated to post it either.

One Saturday afternoon I was walking down Bay State Road near Boston University. I was thinking what was it going to take to get me to stop playing the game of trading and start scalping the 20,000 odd XXX-XXX terrorists who want to complete Hitlerís Final Solution. I stopped at the corner.


There was a building under construction. I looked at the placard on the chain-link fence. Hey what do you know, a new XYZ under construction. There was a small park across the street paid for by some guy Silverstein, another Jew.


The breeze was blowing, it seemed like a nice place to chill out. There were 10 different benches to choose from. I sat down at one of them across from some weird sculpture in the middle. How do they pick this post modernist crap.


I crossed my legs and my gaze shifted down to the left next to my thigh. There I saw it. I couldn't believe it. Two swastikas were lightly drawn in grey lead pencil. It was hard to see because the wood of the bench had also been bleached grey. The first swastika was drawn wrong but they got the 2nd one right.


I was sitting so close I could have easily sat on it and would have never seen them. I got up and examined the other 9 benches. No swastikas on any of them. When I got home, I called the XYZ and told them. The lady sounded surprised. "What?" I told her, "we are at war remember? There are still 6 countries in Middle East the want to kill every Jew on the planet.Ē


I went back a few days later to make sure I wasnít delusional. There were white bleach marks where the swastikas had formerly been. Someone from the XYZ had sanded it off.

When those who offend and those whom they offend become senders and receivers for each other, drama dissolves.



Four Forts in One

and other

Swastika Symbolism Theories


Hindus revere the Swastika, as well as OM.

The origins of both are unclear.


Per Sanskrit grammar the words Su [good] and Asati [to exist] might combine into Swasti [welcome, let good-prevail].


In the conventional type of a fort, the fall of one of the gates to the attacking army would lead to the Enemy's pouring into the fort and lead to massacre or capture of all or most of its inhabitants. Under a Swastika configuration, one of the four gates could fall and still keep at least three-fourths of the fort safe.


Clip: http://www.hindubooks.org/





Tue, 7 Oct 2003


Fractal Poem

I felt goose pimples and 'worse'
as I read your fractal verse.

For the beach I was not prepared,
at my computer I just stared.

The questions you asked are terse,
yet span the universe.

Tears I was not spared.
The wonder I am glad you shared.




Who reads a poem

and comes to know it

may himself

become the poet.


Tue, 7 Oct 2003



(Inter-Tribe Communication)

I cannot find the link between beliefs and feelings.


For instance, I might choose to believe I can't make money instead of experiencing with the fear of losing it.


Until I am willing to experience with feelings I might adopt a "belief system" to institutionalize the avoidance.



Your Beliefs

You know that one of my regular themes is the power of belief. In fact, "you will rarely attempt something you don't believe possible and you will NEVER give 100% of your ability to something you don't believe possible (or believe in)." Do you believe you have what it takes to make money in the markets on a consistent basis and over time, not just today, or this month, but over the next 10 years? If you don't, then it's time to give this up, before the market takes all of your hard earned money.

Gandhi, who must have developed extraordinary belief, said, "Man often becomes what he believes himself to be. If I keep on saying to myself that I cannot do a certain thing, it is possible that I may end by really becoming incapable of doing it. On the contrary, if I shall have the belief that I can do it, I shall surely acquire the capacity to do it, even if I may not have it at the beginning."

I particularly like that last sentence, "I shall surely acquire the capacity to do it, even if I may not have it at the beginning." Where do most people miss the boat? They either half-heartedly try to change their belief system or they don't stick with it long enough. Wallace Watles wrote: "There is no labor from which most people shrink as they do from that of sustained and consecutive thought; it is the hardest work in the world." Yet it is the "sustained and consecutive thought" that is the first and primary labor of achievement. The gospel writer Mark attributes this to Jesus: "Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours."

Over time making money in the markets is about 1) Money Management; 2) Discipline; 3) Belief in yourself; and 4) Timing. With timing being the least important of the 4. In fact I have heard it said that those that master the first 2 (I will add to that the first 3), will make money over time regardless of how well they time things. Think about it!

There is no particular link between beliefs and feelings.


Believing something does not necessarily make it true or make it come true.


A strong  belief can become part of a drama.


When Fred and CM communicate, you may enter a state of natural knowing.



be∑lief (bĭ-lēfʹ) noun

1. The mental act, condition, or habit of placing trust or confidence in another.

2. Mental acceptance of and conviction in the truth, actuality, or validity of something.

3. Something believed or accepted as true, especially a particular tenet or a body of tenets accepted by a group of persons.


-- MS Bookshelf 2000

un, 5 Oct 2003


TTP - Indecision

(from some Inter-Tribe communication)

I intensify (let it go) the contraction/tension in the stomach area up to the throat and it spreads like a pressure all over the body and the head. I feel like curling myself and as I let the pressure manifest itself it resolves into a slight burning feeling in the stomach.


I have a slight tremor and feeling of dismay. Then it manifests itself as a slight contraction or tension in the stomach area/linings, going up to the throat.



good, lets just focus on the stomach up to the throat area, intensify the contraction / tension, turn up the intensity.

What is the texture of the stomach lining up to throat, color, is it hot or cold (temp).



You seem to be focusing on your feelings.



Having a Close Look


at the one who is looking.


Clip: http://oregonfuture.oregonstate.


Mon, 6 Oct 2003


Old Turkey: a Great Receiver

"There was one old chap who was not like the others...he never volunteered advice and never bragged of his winnings. He was a great hand for listening very attentively to the others."

"Old Turkey would cock his head to one side, contemplate his fellow costumer with a fatherly smile, and finally he would say very impressively, 'You know, this is a bull market!' "

"It was at least the fourth time that John had told him that tale of woe, but old Turkey was smiling as sympathetically as if it was the first time he heard it."

Old Turkey. A good receiver always seems to tune in to the right frequency.


Mon, 6 Oct 2003

Joining the message board

Dear Sir

I would like to send questions to your message board. Please advise me how I can do that. I apologize if I missed info on it on your site, but I just could not figure it out.

Thank you

See FAQ Home Page, above

Sat, 4 Oct 2003


Fun with Slippage Tests

I use your conservative method of estimating slippage (take the average of the stop and the worst price of the day) and I also tack on another 20 bps for commissions.

Many seemingly viable and profitable strategies go bankrupt under conservative slippage assumptions.

I also notice that strategies without optimized risk management rules become certain death strategies.

I notice that the optimal bet fraction can easily become to large for comfort, even though the theoretical heat seems manageable, as drawdowns increase substantially with conservative slippage assumptions.

I find it enlightening to spend a great deal of time altering slippage assumptions and seeing the results on various systems.

Thanks for the ideas!

One way to minimize slippage effects is to trade infrequently.






Theoretical and Actual

are two different things.


Clip: http://mhassel.tripod.com/


Fri, 3 Oct 2003

Difference between paper game and real trade


Author suspect ,if

1. Volume of the market is great (es,en )
2. Capital of trader is small (10-25k $),
3. Paper game platform equal of real trading platform
4. Trader have will and specific training in disciplin, execution under complex and heavy psyhological conditions.

than paper game trading result can be some relevant to real trading result . Clear that paper game training more as one year is more representativ as 3-month  paper game trading . After paper game training performed realy trading can be started "step by step" from start with small margin ,aftercontrol time if all okay margin can be multiplied. But training in trading with high margin must be alsow performed in paper game.

Author would very pleased for critic .

You might consider showing your question to some friends to see if they understand it.



Clear Writing


reflects clear thinking


Clip: djl.net/newearthmonkey/

Fri, 3 Oct 2003


Paper Game Result Evaluation

Dear Sir,

Some operator have made 100% on fictional capital $25,000 in each of three consecutive month in electronic paper game by respected futures broker electronic "paper game" trading. Is it enough ground to start real trading ?

Hmmm ... 100% per month with compounding, that's about 409,600% per year.


Before you act out this drama with real money, you might look at your intentions, your past results and your willingness to challenge spectacular claims.




You Can Find

Many Interesting Things

to Do With Money


that do not involve high drama


Clips: http://home.comcast.net/




Fri, 3 Oct 2003


More e-TTP Suggestions

(from Inter-Tribe email)


One suggestion: take 4-5 minutes, close your eyes and focus on your breathing, go through a hypnotic induction.

Close your eyes, take in a few gentle but full breaths, focus on the deep, slow inhale and exhale. good. become aware of your hands, arms, feet, legs, feel how the chair is supporting your body ... as you continue to breathe, become aware your throat, chest and belly ... give yourself this suggestion:

Ed always says that intention is very important ... my intention today is to fully experience my feelings, my intention today is to open up and start a dialog with Fred ...

The advantage of a pre TTP routine is that it puts you in a light trance which helps tone down CM and tune in to Fred.


A set routine also creates Pavlovian conditioning, so next time using the same induction Fred gets the message that you wish to start the dialog where you left off last time.

At the end of your email, do a post routine where you thank Fred for communicating and let him know that you will be back.

All the Best

Yes, a peaceful mood can help Fred and CM communicate.  Other moods may also work - so just go with what presents.


Note: requiring a peaceful mood may inhibit communications about non-peaceful issues ... possibly even indicate judgments about confrontation, etc.  If so, then just experience the judgment.




Intention = Result.


Suggesting Intention =

Suggesting Result.






Water Flows


and so does Lava







Fri, 3 Oct 2003


TTP - Indecision

(copy of some Inter-Tribe e-TTP work)

I have a slight tremor and feeling of dismay. Then it manifests itself as a slight contraction or tension in the stomach area/linings, going up to the throat.

Good, lets just focus on the stomach up to the throat area, intensify the contraction / tension, turn up the intensity.

What is the texture of the stomach lining up to throat, color, is it hot or cold (temp).

Yes, Parsing feelings into properties can help you experience them.

Thu, 2 Oct 2003

Another Workshop ?

Dear Mr. Seykota,

I am unable to attend your late October workshop. Will you be holding
another workshop in the future? Thanks for your help.


The current Workshop occurs in Reno, October 24-26, 2003.


I'd like to confirm it as a big winner before adding on to the position.

Fri, 3 Oct 2003


Emotional intelligence

Ed Writes: You can invite anyone to a meeting ... even if they do not trade. Most people have some interest in trading.

People: Generally Abundant all over the Planet

I have been applying the principles of the TTP to my relationships. Last week, for instance, I talked to mom my feelings about an important issue as she "received" me with great attention and care. And in relationships in general, where there is not as much intimacy, I have been promoting the flow of feelings as well.







Naturally Good Receivers


Clip: http://www.teachwithmovies.org/



Thu, 2 Oct 2003




Hi Ed,

A note about the rapid effect of clear positive intention.

Last week in the pre-workshop assignment I wrote that I wanted to manage more money. I thought and emoted a lot about doing the assignment as a true, realistic description of my goals.

This afternoon a client called and said, "of the three managers I've allocated money to, you're doing the best. If you don't mind my asking, how much are you managing now?" I told him, and he replied, "you should be managing more money. Send me some marketing material. I have people I can give it to." He has lots of business and capital contacts, so this was a nice confirmation of clear intent.

I imagine my goal now is "Make some Marketing Materials" !








Intention = Result


Clips: www.kn.pacbell.com/wired/ democracy/debtquest.html


Thu, 2 Oct 2003


Our 1-st Meeting

NY group #2 met last night. We did serious work.

Pain >>> Tension >>> Fear >>> All relentlessly AMPLIFIED until ... EPIPHANY >>> Laughter >>> Reflection followed by the Wonder that we had witnessed a young man's unconscious punching a hole into our conscious experience.

The sender entered the room hesitant and doubting. He left transformed, having transformed us all.

Best rgds,


Wed, 1 Oct 2003


Answer from Toronto

re Questions from Minneapolis

Images and memories are not feelings. Memories are about the past, feelings are happening now. At the beginning of the process, if a memory does appear, perhaps use it to help find a feeling. If someone in the hot seat is getting right into a feeling and a memory pops up, we in the group recognize that as CM and we have the person focus back on the feeling.

Some meetings are more productive than others. Overall, our trend has been towards much greater productivity. As the process evolves to a greater focus on the physical feelings, things seem to be flowing better.

We are on a hot seat aha streak Ė 5 for 5. If the person in the hot seat is CM focused for this particular meeting, move on to the next person. The hot seat can be viewed like your driving license - as a privilege not a right!

I hope this helps. Good luck and feel free to contact me at any time with any questions.


Wed, 1 Oct 2003


Questions from Minneapolis


Hope all is well with everyone. I am writing to ask other tribes a few questions:

1. We have had a tendency to explore images and memories which tend to come up during the TTP process. Very seldom do they seem to go anywhere. Is it a mistake to explore those? Is the memory irrelevant, or just a by-product of exploring the feeling?

2. Some meetings seems very productive and some are not. Is this common? Is TTP an organic process that cannot be forced?

3. How often does the individual in the hot seat experience an AHA?

We are always interested in the experience of others and appreciate any input you can provide.


1. Anything can serve as an entry point for TTP.  Once you get going, the receiver (s) can help focus the exploration toward feelings.


2. Productivity seems to correlate with intention to express feelings, rather than discuss logical matters.


3. During a session an individual may experience several AHA's - and the receiver (s) may get some too.



AHA's  Occur

When Fred and CM Connect


This may happen

for both senders and receivers.



Clip: http://clear.msu.edu/


Wed, 1 Oct 2003


Identifying and Experiencing

As more feelings come up, and I am quicker to befriend them, I notice that identifying a feeling is not the same as experiencing it.

Identifying a feeling might lead to a quasi-aha..."Oh yeah, no wonder I've been sabotaging my trading! Now if I can only identify what causes this feeling, then I'll have it all figured out."

Indeed, an identified feeling that has not been experienced tends to get analyzed by CM in an attempt to identify its source. This leads to more confusion and psychical entropy.

I note that Fred doesn't press CM for any explanations. Fred doesn't try to figure out how CM optimizes position sizing algorithms.

CM makes an agreement with Fred in which reasons are optional; "OK Fred, I see that you just want to hang out, so it's time we become good friends. I won't ask you why you come up with these feelings, I'll just listen to what you have to say and I won't try to label your input positive or negative. Meanwhile, let's celebrate!"

When CM stops bickering with Fred, they like to hang out and have a good time.


Wed, 1 Oct 2003


Up 100%

Dear Ed,

Sorry I have not written in a couple of weeks. I am going through charts like mad. Check my positions out. Not bad for the first day in these stocks. I will see if they can hold trends for a little while. The market has been choppy! As of today my account is up over 100% to $225,000 from about $100,000 at the beginning of the year. I have only broken 100% in 3 previous years. This might be psychological. I want to break this barrier. Too tired now must chart more. Write later. Thanks again.

You might track your volatility as well as your returns and calculate a composite such as Sharpe or Sterling ratio.

Wed, 1 Oct 2003 00:39:23 -0300


Doing TTP by e-mail is not the same as doing it in a physical intentional community as it is a lot more difficult to get positive results out of a virtual, "cold" meeting because we are limited to communicate feelings through words and images. And so I consider this option just an alternative to those traders who are having problems to set up a physical intentional community, say, like having no traders around as it is my case.

You can invite anyone to a meeting ... even if they do not trade.  Most people have some interest in trading.





Generally Abundant all over the Planet


Clip: http://www.aaos.org/